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Proposed deletion of Annett RennebergEdit

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Unreferenced article about German actress

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German and German Nazi vs NaziEdit

Hello all- I'm hoping to get some input from people with experience working on articles related to Nazi Germany: A new editor going under the moniker of GermanCamps is changing instances of Nazi to German or German Nazi. I find the changes make for awkward and redundant wording. I'm guessing this is not the first time such an issue has come up, and am wondering if anyone here might have input or can point to earlier discussions. See these diffs: Liberation of Auschwitz concentration camp, Nazi concentration camp badge; and discussion. Thanks in advance for any input, and for pinging any users who might be interested. Pinging one user mentioned on this project's active members list: L337p4wn. Eric talk 22:59, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Clearly the term "Nazi" needs to be used carefully; it is not freely interchangeable with "German" even in an historical context. The term is even used to in opposition to German e.g. Nazi Germany as opposed to Germany (i.e. Germany outside the time of National Socialist rule). When applied to people, my sense is that a "Nazi" is specifically a member of the NSDAP as opposed to an ordinary German citizen. The only time to use "German Nazi" is to distinguish a Nazi of German nationality from a Nazi of another nationality. It may be a misunderstanding. Perhaps you could ask GermanCamps what he or she sees as the distinction to determine the logic for the changes. Bermicourt (talk) 07:42, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi Bermicourt, and thanks for your input. I agree. GermanCamps has made no edits since the last revert of my edits. Eric talk 14:28, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Auschwitz Birkenau German Nazi Concentration and Extermination Camp (1940-1945) https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/31/ GermanCamps (talk) 22:43, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
GermanCamps, welcome to Wikipedia. You're still a new user, and simply listing one reliable source like you did proves nothing. Please read WP:DUEWEIGHT, which applies here. When comparing the two expressions, the numbers appear to be crushingly against you, at least for certain search expressions on the web. For example, there are 1,210,000 results for "nazi concentration camp" on the web and 96 for "german nazi concentration camp". (The first tally is likely exaggerated.) Other search terms are possible, of course, and a search limited to reliable sources would be a better test. Perhaps you will find different numbers examining only books or scholarly articles; if so, please post them below. However, I expect the numbers will hold up there as well, and there's no reason to believe they wouldn't. In the meantime, you should stop making this type of change to articles, until it can be justified with respect to DUEWEIGHT and other content policies and guidelines. There's also a possible username issue which I'll raise at your talk page. Mathglot (talk) 06:38, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
WikiProject Germany Coordinator here. While it'll be my aim to mediate this matter, I am going to parrot Bermicourt's opinion on it. Generally, in the English language at least, if you use the word "Nazi" as a descriptor, a certain image or connotation comes to mind. And it isn't Czech collaborators or Lithuanian anti-Soviet guerrillas. It is generally understood when the word "Nazi" is used that one is referring to a Waffen-SS officer, or an SS "doctor", or NSDAP functionary like a Gauleiter. The reference to Auschwitz, a UNESCO World Heritage Site in Poland, as a "German Nazi Concentration and Extermination Camp" by UNESCO, while correct, is redundant, and just makes me think back to Barack Obama's faux pas in referring to Nazi camps in modern-day Poland as "Polish death camps". I suggest this: In the context of concentration and extermination camps, do not change "Nazi camp" to "German Nazi camp"; in the context of Nazis and Nazi collaborators, do not write "Hans Wilhelm König was a German Nazi camp doctor at the Auschwitz and Neuengamme concentration camps", but what I have actually written there: "Hans Wilhelm König was a German [SS officer and camp doctor] at the Auschwitz and Neuengamme concentration camps." There's my two cents. I will now call on K.e.coffman (talk · contribs) and Buidhe (talk · contribs), editors with an extensive history with the topics of Nazi Germany and the Shoah, to give theirs, too. –Vami_IV♠ —Preceding undated comment added 07:41, May 14, 2020
@K.e.coffman: and @Buidhe: as preceding comment was missing a signature. Agathoclea (talk) 09:18, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
I would generally agree with Vami that "German" and "Nazi" are usually redundant, and with his points. However, I would provide a different justification: German should be used in preference to Nazi where there is no ambiguity casued (e.g. Treblinka was a German extermination camp would cause confusion and ambiguity with its geographic location) such that German-occupied Poland however, is preferred to Nazi-occupied Poland. Furthermore, since Nazi is an ideology rather than a nationality, it can cause a different ambiguity. If in future a Naziesque government came to power in Poland, some people might refer to it as a "Nazi occupation of Poland". The Tiso government in Slovakia had some resemblance to Nazi ideology, so did Nazi occupation of Slovakia start in 1938/39 or in 1944 with the German invasion of Slovakia? If we are talking about people it is vague to call them "Nazis", are we referring to their ideology or to actual membership in the Nazi party, or is "Nazi" being used as an insult? I believe that my suggestions correspond to the most common English usage. buidhe 09:40, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Buidhe, before some trigger-happy editor jumps all over your comment, I understood what you meant by "I would generally agree with Vami that German and Nazi are usually redundant" and that you really didn't mean it "generally", but rather "specifically", in this context. In the end, as you say, we should use whatever "correspond[s] to the most common English usage". Hope this clarification fairly represents your PoV. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 19:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
I can't think of any context in which "German Nazi" or equivalent would be used by the predominance of English sources. Yes, we should usally follow usage but we should also aim to be concise, clear, and unambiguous when possible, which sources aren't always. buidhe 19:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

The best solution is to use German Nazi or Nazi German, as a) it links to the specific time period article, and b) it avoids ambiguity. Many people outside the Western civilization can be confused, see for example the entire issue with Polish concentration camps misnomer. I now live and work in Asia, and trust me, most people here have no cluse what SS is, and probably wouldn't automatically associate Nazis with 'Germans only'. Read on Nazi_chic#Asia (this topic needs a major expansion). Or read this semi-random piece of news. For Europans or Americans the word NAzi may seem sufficient, but Wikipedia is international, and for many people in other parts of the word it is obscure, and with much fewer negative connotations. Kind of like for most people in the West Rising_Sun_Flag#Controversy is a surprise, but if you display this in Korae or China, you'll be in trouble (here's another semi-random piece of news on this: [1]). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:43, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

RfC pointerEdit

This RfC may be of interest to the members of this project. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:13, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Expulsion of Germans from CzechoslovakiaEdit

The following discussion at Talk:Expulsion of Germans from Czechoslovakia#Recent addition concerning the US position about how to address discussions of separating the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia after WW1 may be of interest to the project.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:09, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Feedback requested for two move requestsEdit

Your feedback would be welcome at these two related move requests:

Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 21:22, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

VonEdit

I'm categorising German biography articles. Can someone advise me whether people called Von Something should be indexed under V or S please? Practice clearly varies. Is there a rule or policy? Rathfelder (talk) 19:57, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Good question. From a quick internet search, it seems practice varies among English-language sources in how they treat particles such as "von" in names. But our colleagues at de.wp appear to go by the actual last name, with the "von" after the first name: de:Wikipedia:WikiProjekt_Biografien#Sortierung. Eric talk 00:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Use the actual last name, and exclude their title. As an example, Frederick I of Württemberg should be not "König Württemberg, Friedrich", but "Württemberg, Frederick I". –Vami_IV♠ 12:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

A discussion which may be of interest to the members of this project can be found here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:05, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

People by state in GermanyEdit

I've been categorising people by occupation and state, along the lines of Category:German businesspeople by state, but I am not sure what to do with people from Pomerania, Sudetenland etc. They get put in the state which now includes the place they came from. I could just leave these outliers in the Category:German businesspeople. At present there are no occupational categories for the former states and I suspect that is true for most other territories too. I could make new categories, like Businesspeople from Sudetenland. Or, for some, you could argue that they could be put in existing categories like Category:Estonian businesspeople, though that could be considered misleading. Or there could be categories a bit like Category:People of the Tudor period, which attempted to make it clear that they are properly regarded as German, but on different boundaries from today. I would welcome opinions. What would be most helpful? I dont think there is any obvious answer, and maybe leaving them where they are is the most sensible course of action. Rathfelder (talk) 17:09, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Whatever you decide, there's no such word as "businesspeople". Jmar67 (talk) 20:02, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm afraid we are stuck with the word. Rathfelder (talk) 12:55, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Leo NiehorsterEdit

Hi, please check if this draft article translates the German version correctly. Thanks! im temtemhOI!!fsfdfg • alt account of pandakekok9 05:36, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Appears accurate. I did note that the resume implies the doctorate was granted in 1980, not 1982. Jmar67 (talk) 09:22, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Battle of Austerlitz FAREdit

I have nominated Battle of Austerlitz for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. buidhe 02:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Short translation requestedEdit

Moved to Talk:Gigantorhynchus § Translation_of_German_source_material: better place to record discussion Eric talk 19:53, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Rebecka Mendelssohn merger proposal -Edit

See here for discussion.--Smerus (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Feedback at KommandoEdit

Your feedback would be appreciated at Talk:Kommando#Unfocused, regarding a possible split or other refactoring of this article. Mathglot (talk) 20:16, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Wikimedia GermanyEdit

Is there anybody active on this project also involved in WMG? ——Serial # 13:05, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Battle of Moscow FAREdit

I have nominated Battle of Moscow for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. buidhe 01:05, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Request for comment in this WikiProjectEdit

If you are interested, there is a request for comment about an article in this WikiProject. Talk:Tripartite Pact#Request for comment: infobox. AnomalousAtom (talk) 10:43, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

RiversEdit

Hi, I've raised a concern on German rivers at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rivers, input will be appreciated.† Encyclopædius 12:25, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

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