Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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Talkpage technical error at Talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theoryEdit


Can someone please have a look at this? I was having a talkpage technical error at Talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory? Relevant version. I have fixed the issue in the current version, but I think it will mess-up the archives when we get to that time. (please {{ping|}} on reply; thanks!) --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:08, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

If someone could help that would be appreciated. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:33, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
  Bumping thread. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:20, 4 November 2020 (UTC) (please {{ping|}} on reply; thanks!)
@Emir of Wikipedia: I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're looking at or what you might have done to fix it, but it looks like there's a quote box with an unclosed ref tag in it. Look for <ref name="braune2">. I think this code would produce a "ref invoked but not defined" error on the talk page, but I'm not sure if that error would render inside the quote box, or if it would just mess things up unpredictably. You need to close the tag, otherwise Wikipedia thinks everything after it is part of the reference. You can add a / to the end of the tag (<ref name="braune2" />), but then you also need to define the reference and add a {{reflist-talk}} somewhere in the section. It might be better to pull the URL of the reference from the article and replace the ref tag with an external link on the talk page instead. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:36, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Ivanvector. Thanks. I just used an external link, and it looks like that has fixed it. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:50, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
This is the edit. Emir of Wikipedia, on a side note, please don't manually archive VPT threads (or in general, threads on any page which uses bot archiving), you used an out-of-sequence archive number with the upshot that when Lowercase sigmabot III (talk · contribs) next visited this page, it moved threads to a different archive. If a thread is resolved, just use {{resolved}}. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:18, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Category Navigation is messed upEdit

I posted this elsewhere and was asked to report it here. I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I need to post it somewhere. The system is not letting me go through categories in the normal way. When I open a category it has the first 200 articles. However when I click on next it goes straight to a page starting with the 200 articles beginning with the first one categorized under B. If I go back it gives me a page with the previous 200 articles, but will only allow me to go back 1 page. This means in some categories some articles in the category cannot be navigated from. This is a very frustrating situation.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:28, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

The above is not the full extent of the problem. When I click on the A tab to navitage in categories it takes me to B, and when I click on B it takes me to C. The more specific tabs like Ae or Aj take me to B, and always at the start of B. So that method of navigation is a problem as well. I have seen this in the 1927, 1929 and 1990 birth year categories. The same problem occured when I went to the category 20th-century American journalists. It seems to be a general navigation problem. I actually turned off my computer and turned it back on things it might be a function of something on my computer. I do not think it is. I have only noticed this problem in today.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:35, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
I started noticing this problem today as well, within Living people and specific birth year categories, after about 20:00 UTC. --Ken Gallager (talk) 20:49, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

I would guess this is related to the Unicode upgrade. (More specific thread.) Try again toward the end of the week. --Izno (talk) 20:50, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

(reposting from above): It took about nine days in 2016 and was estimated to take about eight days in 2018. I don't know if the process is similar this time, but I would not be surprised to see it take a week to get sorted (I couldn't resist). – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:04, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
@Johnpacklambert: Examples are always good, per the box at the top. Without a link to a category, we can't see what is happening, so can't judge if there is a problem or not. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:24, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
The problem seems to have been resolved.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Maybe on that one page, but see my example below. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:40, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Re: "Examples are good":

On the page Category:Taylor & Francis academic journals when I click on "A" I get B through J and when I click on "B" I get C through J. "C" gives me D through J, and "D" gives me E through L.

"0-9" gives me A but the "previous page " link works and brings me to Écoscience for some strange reason.

"W" gets me X and "X" gets me "There are no pages or files in this category".

--Guy Macon (talk) 20:09, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

A quick update about categories sorting: at the moment, the sorting is still being rebuilt on English Wikipedia. This takes more time due to an unscheduled database restart. Thank you for your patience and your understanding! Trizek (WMF) (talk) 10:26, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Resorting is now done. Please let me know if you find some anomalies that aren't explainable from your side. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 16:53, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Guy Macon, Écoscience was still at the top of Category:Taylor & Francis academic journals. I had to remove the pipe and blank space after the category name in order to get it to sort properly. I do not know enough about categorization to know if this is new behavior. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
@Jonesey95: This is unchanged behaviour, and is working as designed: see WP:SORTKEY, second bullet. That said, using a space as the sortkey was incorrect in this instance, because Écoscience is not the main article of Category:Taylor & Francis academic journals, so your removal was valid. BTW I go past the HQ of Taylor & Francis twice a day, on my journey to/from work. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:15, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Category: Living PeopleEdit

Hi people, the list jumps from Amal Azzudin to Shahida Abbasi, I suspect that the recent people have been added. I haven't noticed before...GrahamHardy (talk) 18:41, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

@GrahamHardy: All categories will be out-of-sorts for the next few days due to a recent change in the Wikipedia software. If it's still a problem in a week and a half, raise the issue again. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 18:44, 18 November 2020 (UTC) (true, but irrelevant) davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 18:46, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
Oh, the problem you saw may be unrelated, it has to do with the {{DEFAULTSORT}} on the respective pages. Most, but not all, people are "sorted" last-name-first. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 18:46, 18 November 2020 (UTC) Update Yup, Shahida Abbasi has {{DEFAULTSORT:Abbasi, Shahida}} in it. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 18:48, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
No, those sort keys don't explain the incorrect sorting. The actual issue is the one you struck, also described above in #Tech News: 2020-47. MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM 19:21, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
Doh, yeah, Abbassi comes before either Amal or Azzudin. Both should come after "Caffeine, ingesting." davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 19:24, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Categories not alphabetizing new articles properlyEdit

This may be a problem that has already been noticed by other people, but as I can't find evidence that it's been raised here recently I wanted to mention it just in case.

Some recently created articles — specifically articles that were either newly created today, or already existed but got added today to a category that they weren't previously in — don't seem to be getting alphabetized correctly in their relevant categories. For example, in Category:Members of the Delaware House of Representatives, the articles Sarah McBride, Eric Morrison and Marie Pinkney are all flopping out of alphabetical order, and just sitting at the end of their respective letters. And by the same token, Category:Members of the Tennessee House of Representatives features end-of-letter misfiles of Torrey Harris and Eddie Mannis, both newly created today, and Leonidas "Leon" Howard, which already existed but had its sortkey corrected today because the creator had copypasted the defaultsort template from another person without correcting it to reflect Leon Howard's name instead of the other person's.

I know this problem has occurred in the past; however, I don't recall whether it resolved itself naturally, or whether somebody had to tweak something at the server level to fix it. Bearcat (talk) 19:53, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Expect this to take a week or so to be resolved. See above. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:41, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Would an interface warning help?Edit

I'm not up on the details of how our interface customization works, but would it be possible to use that to put a warning banner on the top of every category page for the next week, alerting people that it's a known problem? -- RoySmith (talk) 18:00, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Per comment above by Trizek (WMF), this is done. --Izno (talk) 18:22, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Horizontal rule with text in the middleEdit

I'm doing a redesign of the languages list that appears at the bottom of the main page. I'd like to get it looking a little more like the "Read Wikipedia in your language" list on the global landing page, where the "More than 250,000 articles" etc. headers are in the middle of a horizontal rule (which produces a cleaner visual hierarchy). Could anyone help me code that at the sandbox? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 22:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

This Stackoverflow thread looks promising. I think the one on the main page uses JS, but the thread linked here uses CSS, so you might be able to use template styles. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Proof of concept follows, using similar technique to the global landing page; it could use some refinement but it works. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 22:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia


For something like this, you should note that hard-coding the background color leaves a chunky box around the text on any page where this doesn't match the background color of other text - so that should be avoided. — xaosflux Talk 17:32, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:RefToolbar § Autofill access-date button not thereEdit

  You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:RefToolbar § Autofill access-date button not there. Any technical help will be greatly appreciated! Funandtrvl (talk) 01:23, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I think I've identified the issue, but we need an interface admin to make the edit. Ideally sooner rather than later. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 02:04, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you!! Funandtrvl (talk) 04:02, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
problem fixed, thanks! Funandtrvl (talk) 20:37, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Request to update the Cite_OED templateEdit

Where is the best place to find someone to update {{Cite_OED}}? I've asked several times on the talk page at Template_talk:Cite_OED#Template_needs_updating, but that page probably doesn't get much exposure. Happy to ask elsewhere if someone could point me in the right direction. MichaelMaggs (talk) 22:33, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

MichaelMaggs, maybe Help talk:Citation Style 1? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 03:49, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, will try that. MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Musical scores not workingEdit

I wanted to draw the attention of VPT to a serious issue with music articles right now. Musical scores are not displaying, replaced with the error message "Musical scores are temporarily disabled." This results in significant gaps in many music articles, as the scores are used for essential explanations and examples (see inversion (music), for example). The score element is used on hundreds of articles and has been broken since July. There is some discussion of the issue at Help:Score and Help talk:Score, but there's no indication that anything is being done to fix it. I think some Wikipedians with more technical expertise than I need to step in and find a solution to this, as it's causing major damage to Wikipedia's music coverage. If this is being worked on and there's a timeline for fixing it, please let me know. Many thanks. --Albany NY (talk) 03:34, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@Albany NY: It's a known problem. I forget where I saw the official notice, but it's been like that for weeks. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 03:35, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
See T257066. Scores have been disabled for security reasons, and it is challenging for volunteers to fix because the security problems have not been disclosed widely. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:01, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Proposal to make RedWarn a gadgetEdit

RedWarn is a popular counter-vandalism tool, written in JavaScript and used by hundreds English Wikipedia editors to revert problematic edits, warn and report editors, request page protection and perform other moderation and maintenance tasks.

Released in April of this year, it has since become one of the most popular active counter-vandalism tools used by English Wikipedia volunteers, along with Twinkle and Huggle (see Special:Tags).

Originally, it was just myself alone developing RedWarn, however, now RedWarn has a seven-strong team who help maintain RedWarn on a regular basis. In my opinion, while I was originally myself opposed to it, seeing RedWarn grow has made making RedWarn a gadget a very appealing option as it would benefit everyone in multiple ways, but predominantly from a security prospective. RedWarn is in use by over 300 editors. This includes administrators and other users with elevated privileges on the English Wikipedia and other wikis. If RedWarn was a gadget and in the MediaWiki space, updates to the script would have more scrutiny applied to it by interface administrators before they update the script. Right now, as it is in my userspace, in the highly unlikely event that my account becomes compromised, the damage to the English Wikipedia could be extensive.

RedWarn meets the criteria for a gadget at WP:GADGET. While we don't support Safari or IE, given a vast majority of desktop users are using compatible browsers and over 300 have already installed without issue. RedWarn also works out of the box by default, but a first time setup is shown, mainly for user experience. This can be moved if this is an issue. We also support all skins. RedWarn is open-source at, is powered by Wikimedia Cloud Services/Toolforge and contains one obfuscated component designed to prevent people from bypassing permission restrictions and abusing powerful RedWarn features. We can remove these also if anyone is concerned.

Thank you all for your consideration, Ed talk! 04:19, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


Note: If you oppose due to off-wiki hosting please read the secondary proposal in the section below first. Ed talk! 21:04, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

  • Support as proposer. Ed talk! 04:19, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support per nom Disclosure: I am one of RedWarn's devssportzpikachu my talkcontribs 04:21, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @Ed6767: isn't this not really going to be gadget-optimized because it is running code and directing users to external servers, additionally by loading external scripts isn't this bypassing security controls that are normally present with gadgets (that they would not be expected to behave differently without community managed interface administrators updating them - and also being able to watchlist the actual code)? — xaosflux Talk 04:24, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    Hi Xaosflux, we're using Toolforge, which is WMF hosted, and we plan to add signatures to all our external resources if we become a gadget meaning that we cannot change the code of those files without consequentially changing the signatures, so browsers will refuse to load them as there will be a signature mismatch. When there has been a change to these files, they will be made in a newer separate file on the server and updating them will be to the discretion of int admins. We will keep minification as low as we can, all of RedWarn's actual code and functionality is and will remain on-wiki, to allow for people to watchlist, along with tracking changes on the GitLab. Hope this clarifies, Ed talk! 04:33, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    Why does this need to be off-wiki? — xaosflux Talk 12:18, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    @Xaosflux, we can copy over the several JS and CSS dependencies on-wiki, but our speed tests on a test MediaWiki instance have shown that this would slow down the website drastically for RedWarn users. Either way, for technical reasons we'd still need to host other files, like fonts and sounds, off-wiki. Ed talk! 15:25, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    @Ed6767: thanks for the note, have you considered just moving the whole thing off-wiki then? Could be linked to a browser add-on, or if you really want to tie it to a wiki user, just a one-line script? — xaosflux Talk 15:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    @Xaosflux, we could, and we have thought about it, but that brings up again people being unable to watchlist the script itself for changes Ed talk! 15:59, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support because RedWarn is an amazing tool (even better than Twinkle in my opinion), and therefore should have the same status of Gadget. It would also help new users find the tool, streamline updating/deployment, and secure the code against vandalism or client-side tampering. — MrConorAE (👤U | 💬T | 📝C) 05:22, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Strongest possible support per nom. And also per the fact that RedWarn is one of the most powerful anti-vandalism tools that I've ever seen. JJP...MASTER![talk to] JJP... master? 16:08, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I have to admit that I have found RedWarn to be a useful tool. It has more rollback reasons than Twinkle, has more customization than Twinkle, and, while I cannot say it is easier to use as Twinkle, it does get really close. I just tested the tool on my old iPhone and it does not work. It also does not really work on Android either. Twinkle, on the other hand, works well on mobile. I don't even find the Pending Changes Review feature that useful, either. I think RedWarn is a solution looking for a problem. The new functionality could probably be rewritten with modern UI and cross-platform compatibility in mind. Now, all the technical details, which most readers would not be interested: RedWarn would do better if written using OOUI, not Google Material Design. OOUI is built into MediaWiki and is designed to work across all devices. Also, as much as I see good intentions with this, loading material from other servers is a security vulnerability. Material Design is not built into MediaWiki and is unlikely to be for a while. While that does mean that you may have to sacrifice certain icons, I can picture it being a lot more compatible with more browsers than Material Design. Good news, though: you probably are safe to upload these icons to Wikimedia Commons as they are CC BY-4.0 licensed. Aasim (talk) 08:09, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    • What I think would be better is if we had RW's functionality merged into Twinkle. Keep the inspector, keep the multiple action tool, add a dropdown to the rollback reasons, add rollback previews, and add forms for the suppression forms, and voila, Twinkle has all the good RedWarn functionality! Oh, and make Twinkle not mess with the page content and confine everything to dialogues. Aasim (talk) 17:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Strong support per nom. User3749 (talk) 16:19, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support as a frequent user, though I'm admittedly unqualified to fully gauge the validity of the technical concerns raised above. AngryHarpytalk 16:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support. As a frequent user, I can say that RedWarn should be a gadget, it's a tool I find useful in anti-vandalism. However, I'm not a programmer, and therefore am not qualified to judge the technical concerns above. Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:01, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Strong support - RedWarn is far better than Twinkle (IMO), and as per the reasons per nom. Thanks, Thanoscar21talkcontribs 17:22, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Strong support per nom.--Ahmetlii (talk) 17:33, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Twinkle is used on other projects. Wait until this is as well. --HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 18:11, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. Daask (talk) 18:34, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support per nominator - this is a wonderful tool and so simple to use JW 1961 Talk 18:38, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support I have been using RW for a few weeks, and it has greatly helped me in my pending reviewer and anti-vandalism tasks. This is a very useful tool with polished UI and great potential! Double Plus Ungood (talk) 18:41, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support I think RedWarn the best anti-vandalism tool we have. I think making it a gadget will be incredibly beneficial to the project. Scorpions13256 (talk) 18:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support per nom, as a frequent user who loves its convenience. WDM10 (talk) 18:55, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Question: How do you intend to note that the gadget does not work for all users? ~ Amory (utc) 19:01, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I am entirely against this being a gadget for exactly the issue raised by xaosflux above. Who has access to and the various files hosted there? If the answer is anything other than "only interface-admins" (which is obviously not the case) it's an end-run around the whole whole system. I'll oppose adding any gadget that does that, especially is such an obfuscated and off-wiki manner. ~ Amory (utc) 19:01, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose, per xaosflux and Amorymeltzer, unless everything is moved on-wiki or I can see working demonstration of how this signature scheme will work (e.g. on testwiki). Cryptography is hard, and just because you think browsers will refuse to load them as there will be a signature mismatch does not make it so. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 19:28, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    Hi Amorymeltzer and Suffusion of Yellow, thanks for your questions. First, we could either add a loader that'd let people know if their browsers were incompatible and automatically unload the script, or add a note saying "Only works with modern Chromium or Gecko-based browsers (such as Chrome and Firefox)". Second, I'm the only one in control of the project (see, along with the WMF staff, of course. If I implement the signature checks, these will be hardcoded in the on-wiki version of RedWarn, meaning I would be unable to edit the off-wiki files without the new signatures being changed in the code by IntAdmins in the on-wiki script or browsers would simply refuse to load them, meaning that IntAdmins are not bypassed at all, as you may fear. I'm willing to transfer the Toolforge project to IntAdmins if these signature checks are not enough. Again, there is only one obfuscated component designed to prevent abuse, this code is open source like the rest of RedWarn and can be removed if necessary. Other dependencies are minified and taken from official sources to ensure the site is not slowed down by RedWarn's loading process. I hope this clarifies your doubts and clears some of your concerns.
    (edit conflict) Suffusion of Yellow, please see - this is what will be used, and this is relied on by many major sites, if we were programming our own signature system I would also be extremely concerned. RE a test, we can arrange that if you like once these checks are implemented, or you can even test with your own local version of RedWarn if you'd like to verify the system yourself. Thanks, Ed talk! 19:50, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    I should also add that as far as I know the only browsers that can run/parse RedWarn (i.e. modern ones) have SRI implemented. If it's not supported, the script load will fail with a syntax error and the external scripts will not be implemented. Ed talk! 20:02, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    @Ed6767: Thanks. So the idea is that every time any of the code is updated (including dependencies), you'll ping an intadmin to update the hash(es)? So long as they don't mind the extra workload, I don't see a problem, but I'd still like to see a demo first. One more question: Who, apart from WMF staff, can view the IP addresses and user agents of people visiting Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:08, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    @Suffusion of Yellow, yes, if we do ever update the scripts, that'd be the case, but we'd probably make new script files with new signatures and include the signature changes in a new version of RedWarn along with other changes, but we'll make it clear that we've updated off-wiki elements if we do. Regarding your question, nobody at all, and I will always make sure of that. Ed talk! 20:20, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    Additional workload reviewing changes will be necessary if it is local as well as Ed is not an interface administrator. --Izno (talk) 20:25, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    Fortunately, we don't have plans to update our dependencies unless a security issue or other major bug occurs. Ed talk! 20:30, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    Compatibility is also an issue. Gadgets must work out of the box on all major browsers. So far, RedWarn does not work on Android (Microsoft Edge) or WebKit (Safari on iOS, Mac). It may be better to keep this as a user script, maybe place the script code at Wikipedia:RedWarn/code.js and have that page fully protected so that only admins can edit it.
    Also, @Ed6767, I do not like the canvassing done by notifying existing RedWarn users through the script about the possibility of becoming a gadget. I know you have good intentions, and the notice was very neutral, but even with a neutral message, because you are only notifying a certain group of people, it can create bias that makes consensus extremely difficult to evaluate. If you want to get more users involved in your discussion, I'd recommend WP:RFC, which notifies a random group of editors from those who subscribed. You would also hit a few RedWarn users as well. Aasim (talk) 21:34, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    Yup... it seems as if the oppose group mostly do not have RedWarn installed, and the support group mostly do have RedWarn installed. This is something that the closing admin should note. Users with RedWarn installed appeared to be inappropriately notified of the discussion through the script. :\ Not saying it can significantly impact consensus; there may be no consensus or the proposal may still be rejected. Aasim (talk) 21:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    There's no "appeared to be" about it * Pppery * it has begun... 21:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    See Participation bias. Aasim (talk) 21:46, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    Whether deliberate or otherwise, Awesome Aasim, it is misinformation to say that gadgets must work on all major browsers. (And also incorrect to say that Edge is on Android. It is not.) --Izno (talk) 21:52, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    I am reading the general criteria... "Gadgets must be compatible with all major browsers." That would include Safari, Chrome, Firefox, Microsoft Edge, and Opera. Maybe also Internet Explorer. I'm looking here for major browser information. Aasim (talk) 22:14, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    @Awesome Aasim, we're looking at, which shows that since 2015 the major browsers on the desktop for Wikimedia projects are Chrome and Firefox, which are compatible browsers. Ed talk! 22:25, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    Ok. I guess if you get it to work with Chromium, it will work with many other major browsers that use Chromium, including Chrome, Edge, and Opera. But I don't know. If you need, you can get Chromium from [1]. Aasim (talk) 22:33, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    @Awesome Aasim, it works with Chromium perfectly, I use it on my laptop, and Chrome itself is Chromium based. Ed talk! 22:41, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    @Awesome Aasim, RedWarn works on Chrome Mobile on Android and I have both tested it and used it thoroughly, I don't know about the issue with Microsoft Edge and will look into it. We are working on Safari support, but this is still a small percentage of desktop visitors, and 300 have already installed without issue. The latest WMF stats show the vast majority of visitors have compatible browsers. An RFC isn't used to propose new gadgets per the listed process at Wikipedia:Gadget.
    Off-topic: In addition, while others may disagree with me, I did not canvass and was extremely careful not to. This thread had no activity in a while, and RedWarn users are likely to be the ones most affected by this decision, so they were notified with an intentionally neutral message:
    "There is a proposal to make RedWarn a gadget on the English Wikipedia! Voice your opinions for or against RedWarn becoming a gadget by clicking "Read More" and engaging in the discussion. Your participation is appreciated :)"
    There was no requirement to engage in the discussion, plus this thread may contain details relevant to RedWarn's users (I know many don't actually watch the RedWarn page itself). In addition, Wikipedia works through consensus, not voting, and the stronger arguments so far have come from the opposing side. You could accuse me of vote stacking as I only notified RedWarn users, but I had left this thread on VPT, an already high traffic forum, for days, not to mention the increased participation from RedWarn users has also resulted in participation from non-RedWarn users, which was my intention. In addition, there's no knowing whether or not existing users would want RedWarn to be a gadget or remain a user script until you ask. I take any accusation of canvassing extremely seriously, and if you wish to uphold yours, know this was not deliberate. Ed talk! 21:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    I understand it was probably not deliberate, just wanted to let you know... :) Aasim (talk) 22:16, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    My note about obfuscation was in reference to off-wiki, where it's difficult to track down what's being loaded, and near-impossible to follow any changes. ~ Amory (utc) 16:09, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support, per similar reasons above. Moving everything on-wiki would be a good idea, but I'm not knowledgeable enough on other gadgets/pros and cons of that to bring it into my decision. ThadeusOfNazerethTalk to Me! 20:05, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose per the others, there's too many security issues (among other things) and it just seems unnecessary at this stage. Praxidicae (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose offsite implementation. Besides the specific issues mentioned above, Toolforge is not guaranteed to have the uptime that Wikipedia does, and I really do not want to have to deal with "my gadget is broken" that will show up at WP:VPT any time Toolforge decides to be down for more than a minute. No opinion on local implementation. --Izno (talk) 20:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose – gadgets need to be developed and maintained onwiki. If this is not acceptable to the developers, RedWarn might be better suited as a browser add-on or a separate application, like Huggle, Stiki, or AWB. – bradv🍁 20:29, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now due to the offsite implementation. RedWarn should ideally be all onwiki before it is made into a gadget. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 20:30, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Big ol' Oppose per bradv/Izno/everyone else who disagrees with a gadget being hosted offwiki. Leave it as it is, it's fine. -- a they/them | argue | contribs 20:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose I strongly agree with others about the offsite implementation. I use RedWarn and I really like it; but the issues raised by others are excellent reasons to not make this a gadget without significant changes. And a promise by the author to not allow IPs to be viewed by anyone isn't much of a guarantee; I'm sure they mean it, but what if the server gets compromised? The current user base is quite small, but if it were made into a gadget the user base would explode. Do you have the infrastructure to support that? Can you ensure privacy for anonymous users? It's a pretty huge burden, and making it a gadget makes it seem like Wikipedia is endorsing/promoting the tool. MrAureliusRTalk! 20:44, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Security concerns outweigh arguments for promoting to gadget. Natureium (talk) 20:49, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    Hi @Natureium and others, would you support if we moved on-wiki? Ed talk! 21:06, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Strong support. It is a very useful tool to have when warning vandals. ImYourTurboLover (talk) 21:33, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Strong support. RedWarn is my primary method for removing vandalism, warning vandals, etc., and I have found it quicker than any other method. It would be great for more people to have easy access to it. Thanks, EDG 543 (message me) 22:23, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Neutral, but leaning towards support. To be honest, it probably won't affect me whether it's a gadget, or only a user script. It can be either, and as long as functionality is the same, I'll be fine. JMVR1 🗪 🖉 📫 23:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support. I have been using this tool extensively, and believe it would benefit from being a gadget, provided it can be hosted on-wiki and kept secure. The interface is intuitive and it has made the workflow for counter-vandalism very efficient for me. I tend to use it with Twinkle, as it offers features that RedWarn does not, which is fine. That said, it would be nice to see where RedWarn can go in the future in incorporating some new features, to make users less dependent on multiple tools.  A S U K I T E   04:48, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support: RedWarn is more effective than Twinkle. Kailash29792 (talk) 13:41, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support. RedWarn is a great tool for reverting vandals and I personally think it is more useful than Twinkle. Sun8908──Talk 16:00, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion regarding on-wiki hostingEdit

CC: @Bradv, Praxidicae, Izno, Suffusion of Yellow, Amorymeltzer, and Amorymeltzer: I've noted people oppose using the current off-wiki method of hosting dependencies, even with potential signature checks. If this would prevent RedWarn from becoming a gadget, and while I tried to avoid it, we could work to a compromise to move all the CSS and JS files on-wiki in a way that wouldn't affect performance. If this was the case in the RedWarn gadget, would you support it? i.e. you support making RedWarn a gadget on the condition that is is moved entirely on-wiki. This would exclude files such as fonts and sounds, which will continue to be hosted by the WMF on toolforge, but these contain no scripts that could count as a security issue. Ed talk! 20:44, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Pinging @MrAureliusR and Alfie: who may not have seen this.
That would solve some of the issues -- but is Wikipedia willing to do that? MrAureliusRTalk! 21:09, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Q1: Can you clarify what you meant by nobody at all having access to IP addresses? Does that include you? Q2: Will the script still work (silently and with perhaps uglier fonts) if the fonts and sounds fail to download? Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:19, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
@Suffusion of Yellow Q1: yes, not even me. If I did collect that data without clearly disclosing that I do I would not only be in trouble with the WMF, but the law under the Data Protection Act in the UK. Q2: yes the script will still work fine, plus the fonts would be cached, covering a majority of the downtime issues, and we'll ensure we can notify users (such as through the campaign announcement system) of downtime. Ed talk! 21:29, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
In that case, I'm not opposed and might be convinced to support. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
If all scripts are onwiki, for accountability purposes if not security (which may well be addressed by other methods proposed), I also feel the biggest concern is resolved. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 00:05, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Can you provide a list of all resources you would move on-wiki? ~ Amory (utc) 16:06, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi @Amorymeltzer, I can indeed: - right click menu support - also for the above - gecko/others support - material design lite ( - optional tested jquery version, although we could use the already built in mediawiki copy instead - clicking and dragging in preferences menu - jquery support for the above
You can see the sources where these files have been copied from at Wikipedia:RedWarn/Documentation/RedWarn Tools#CDN
Regarding CSS, is it preferred to move this on-wiki too? If so, I can also provide a list. Thanks, Ed talk! 02:11, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Looks like MDL is the Apache license, which means you can't host it here. ~ Amory (utc) 02:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Lua error: bad argument #1 to 'formatDate' (NaN)Edit

A heap of articles are showing Lua error: bad argument #1 to 'formatDate' (NaN)., see articles with script errors. Several examples of the error can be found by searching Module:Sports table/WDL/doc for "Lua error". Related changes is not helping as much as it normally does. Since I can't figure it out, I am blaming Scribunto. The error message is exactly what a customized Lua might show if a function named formatDate was called with a Nan (not-a-number) as argument 1. Really reaching, I would guess that it is related to the expansion of references. I have no evidence for that speculation. Any better ideas? Johnuniq (talk) 04:40, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: Probably Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 184#Category:Pages with non-numeric formatnum arguments. --Izno (talk) 05:27, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
And subsequently Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 185#Tech News: 2020-45 and Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 185#Tech News: 2020-46. --Izno (talk) 05:30, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Possibly my brain is off but I can't see how those links lead to this error. Module:Sports table/WDL/doc is in Category:Pages with script errors + Category:Pages using sports table with possibly ignored parameters + Category:Pages with reference errors and no other categories. Johnuniq (talk) 05:47, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm guessing the same changes (and particularly the task attached in one or the other of the tech news notes) are driving this sudden issue related to formatDate is my belief. I'm more or less puzzled that there wasn't a separate category emitted for that function as well. (We have some 70 uses of the function in our modules.) --Izno (talk) 06:00, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes, that is plausible because languageObject:formatDate(...) is executed within Scribunto and it would probably show an error like this if it received a NaN. I tried constructing the error but failed. For example, mw.getContentLanguage():formatDate(0/0) gives "Lua error: bad argument #1 to 'formatDate' (string expected, got number)" and replacing the colon with a dot gives a different error specifically to catch that blunder. Johnuniq (talk) 06:23, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I've chased it a little further. When executing one of the examples with errors in Module:Sports table/WDL/doc, this code is executed:

local win_perc = mm._precision_format((2*wins + draws) / (2*matches), 3)
local formatted_num = lang:formatNum(math.abs(value))

The error then occurs. That is because wins and draws and matches are zero so mm._precision_format is passed 0/0 (NaN). Then value in Module:Math is also NaN and the lang:formatNum code gives that error. Except, the error message says formatDate. Because I can't see any recent changes in relevant modules at enwiki, I'm guessing that what I just said always occurred (that is, NaN was passed to formatNum). Perhaps something in Scribunto or the PHP library it uses now throws an error for NaN but treated differently before? Johnuniq (talk) 09:00, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

The error claims incorrectly it is an formatDate error because of change . There is an clear copy-paste error there. FormatDate has nothing to do with it.--Snaevar (talk) 12:50, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, I tried looking around Gerrit but missed seeing that. Johnuniq (talk) 06:21, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
I think the above might be a red herring. I have just been trying to edit 2020–21 Championnat National#League table, where (2*wins + draws) does not equal zero for any club. I get the Lua error: bad argument #1 to 'formatDate' (NaN) when I save any change. Gricehead (talk) 10:52, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
To add - setting a ranking_style to ppg or perc stops the error, so it's something caused by entering the first outcome in the if ranking_style== switch. Gricehead (talk) 11:07, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
But I had made a typo in a team identifier for a position. That normally flags as a warning, but now throws this error. Gricehead (talk) 13:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Please try your wikitext again and see what happens now. If there is an inexplicable error, you might reply here with a link to show the problem. For example, you could put some minimal wikitext in your sandbox. Johnuniq (talk) 06:21, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Possibly fixedEdit

These errors are possibly all   Fixed by this edit. Please report further problems below, after purging or null-editing the article in question. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:10, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, and I see you reported the incorrect error message at phab:T268758. Johnuniq (talk) 06:21, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Upper case lower case issue in recovering a passwordEdit


Because of a faulty keyboard in Firefox on one of my Linux laptops, I needed to install Chromium to test out a solution. I installed Wikipedia on Chromium, I failed to log in using my the name 'clemrutter' My user name is 'ClemRutter'. I applied for a forgotten password using the using 'clemrutter' and my default email address. A temporary password was sent to me. I logged in with that.


I logged in with 'clemrutter'. Looking at the top line-red link to user page, talk page and sandbox-- but I had two notifications to this new account- both links from other editors refering to edits I had made under the old account. Obviously one of the searches is case dependent, and the notification search is not.


Very low. Action needed: reviewing the source code for the searches. Review whether the username on log in needs to be verified before the password box is ungreyed. (see fair use unload wizard for file verification that we already use) --ClemRutter (talk) 11:36, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

@ClemRutter: I'm not exactly following your problem? You made this report logged in at User:ClemRutter, not as User:Clemrutter. Usernames are case-sensitive, but not in the first letter (which are always uppercase). — xaosflux Talk 12:20, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
If you have 2 accounts with the same email address, but different mid-string casing I can see it could be confusing - but I'm missing what it is you would like done about that? — xaosflux Talk 12:23, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I am just being a good little boy and reporting a strange incident. I am not requesting any particular outcome. I have suggested that the existence of a username is checked before the password request is made, though in this case it wouldn't be helpful! Thanks to Certes for the explanation. ClemRutter (talk) 19:47, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Clemrutter was created automatically on 5 August 2017. It's a separate account with no edits, user page or talk page on enwp. However, similarly named accounts have about 20 edits in 2007–08 across several other wikis. I expect that a corresponding enwp account was created when global login was rolled out, and that is the one for which the temporary password was issued. Certes (talk) 12:29, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Gadget-markblocked.js indef vs temp style?Edit

After about my third time of making a mistake because I thought somebody was indef blocked when they were only temp blocked, I decided to hack on MediaWiki:Gadget-markblocked.js to make it show those two in different styles. What I discovered was that it already does, but the difference (opacity 0.4 vs 0.7) is so subtle, I never noticed it.

So, two questions. First, is there some pre-canned way to customize the styles? I'm guessing not, since they look hard-wired into the js code. Second, before I reinvent the wheel, has anybody already looked at this and come up with a good set of alternate styles? My first thought was one of the strikeout variations (double, wavy, dashed), but they all leave the underlying text nearly illegible.

Related: TIL that Special:Gadgets lists all the gadgets and gives you a way to map from the descriptive text strings in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets to the actual gadget source code. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:48, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Indef blocks are also italicized, are they not for you? ~ Amory (utc) 18:47, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Help requested for lint errors in collapsed infobox sectionsEdit

  You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Collapsed infobox section begin § LintHint errors. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 18:10, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

IABot says I am blockedEdit

When I attempt to fix dead links, I get an error message stating I am blocked. However, my account details indicates I am not [2]. I am able to edit normally otherwise. Cullen328 did accidentally block me the the 21st [3]. Is there a lag or something? S0091 (talk) 19:12, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

What was the exact message? Ruslik_Zero 19:33, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Pinging operator: cyberpower678 ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 19:34, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
@Ruslik0: below is the message that displays in a red box in the upper left of the page:
Analysis error:
blocked: You have been blocked from editing.
S0091 (talk) 19:45, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
This is resolved. See also other reports on cyberpower's talk page. S0091 (talk) 17:41, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
The core issue doesn't seem to be resolved. Another user has now reported this. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 20:34, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Template:Election tableEdit

Can anybody help us along here? (If willing to reply, please do only post there, for reasons of transparency. Thanks in advance for any support.)--Hildeoc (talk) 22:22, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Tools for Short ArticlesEdit

Hi guys! Do any of you know any tools that could detect stub articles or short articles that have not been categorized in stub articles? Please spam below regarding the tools! Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberTroopers (talkcontribs) 20:00, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

@CyberTroopers: Frustratingly, Wikipedia:Stub#Tools says several tools are available to do this, but it does not list them, except for WP:AWB. So that's one possible at least. RudolfRed (talk) 21:12, 26 November 2020 (UTC) RudolfRed (talk) 21:12, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
If you do find some other tools, please add them to that page. RudolfRed (talk) 22:43, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
@RudolfRed: Thank you, buddy! I do use AWB, but is there certain source code I've to write to indentify the articles or they have like existed-button or tick box? Do you have any idea about it? CyberTroopers (talk) 02:39, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Is it acceptable to use Template:In use in talk page mentions of the template?Edit

Is it acceptable to use Template:In use in talk page mentions of the template? Please see the discussion at Template talk:In use#Use/mention distinction on user talk and other talk pages and discuss it there. —Anomalocaris (talk) 08:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

wikidumps sha1 segments ...Edit

I asked this question in the help forum and they told me this would be the right forum to ask these kinds of questions. Sorry, for the typos and changes of character sets in editors. You will certainly see what I mean. I downloaded some of the 20200920 bz2 wikidumps and took care of checking their md5 and sha1 sums. To my understanding there is simply no way that the content of the compressed files containing the pages (which I have also eyeballed) could have been corrupted without anyone noticing. Yet, when you decompress them you will see <sha1>...</sha1> segments containing CDATA inside of every <page>...</page> segment right after the <text bytes="[byte length of the UTF-8 text]" xml:space="...">...</text> (which "bytes" (length) value I have checked for every text segment). The sha1 string value which doesn't make any sense to me, because:

  • sha1 values are 40 bytes long
  • sha1sum Linux utility is telling me it doesn't seem to be right

let's use as an example: frwiki-20200920-pages-articles-multistream6.xml-p13574284p13592810.bz2

  <title>The New Woody Woodpecker Show</title>
  <redirect title="Le Nouveau Woody Woodpecker Show" />
    <text bytes="49" xml:space="preserve">#REDIRECTION Le Nouveau Woody Woodpecker Show</text>

~ 276az6ruof7t45y5svax3omeamdxps3 is only 31 bytes long and this is what Linux message digest utilities tell me: $ echo "#REDIRECTION Le Nouveau Woody Woodpecker Show" | sha1sum f1160df2ed230af750122eb08376dfb9251b8951 - $ sha1sum "/home/lbrtchx/cmllpz/temp/checkSHA1.txt" f1160df2ed230af750122eb08376dfb9251b8951 /home/lbrtchx/cmllpz/temp/checkSHA1.txt $ cat "/home/lbrtchx/cmllpz/temp/checkSHA1.txt" REDIRECTION Le Nouveau Woody Woodpecker Show ~ So, I have three related questions:

  • What do those "sha1" segments inside of each "page" right bellow the "text" segment mean?
  • Do you know of any "anatomical" analysis posted officially by wikipedia or anyone else with the explanation of the meaning of the tags they use?

I could understand as topical such tags as:

    • en|User talk
    • ja|Category
    • ru|Категория
    • en|Category talk
    • en|Category
    • ar|تصنيف
    • ko|분류
    • ja|Wikipedia
    • ru|Шаблон
    • ja|Template
    • en|Wikipedia
    • en|Template
    • ru|Википедия
    • en|Template talk
    • ko|í‹€
    • en|Draft

but I am not so sure about:

    • ja|The Ultimate Fighter
    • en|Star Wars
    • ru|Pirates of the Caribbean
    • ja|Pokémon the Series

are those colons in the titles officially used to define general topical matters such as Categories or anyone can just type a colon in a title to a message? or both? and in the last case which topics are owned by wikipedia and which aren't?

  • There is also some funky mark up they use inside of their text segment which is xml-ish but not exactly xml. All I've heard was that such mark up is used as part of the processing through a mysql database. Could you safely use that kind of mark up to parse the document's segments?

lbrtchx — Preceding unsigned comment added by Albretch Mueller (talkcontribs) 12:25, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

@Albretch Mueller: The SHA-1 values are in base36 format rather than in hex, as explained at mw:Manual:Revision table#rev_sha1, which explains why they are shorter than you expected. The export format is written about at mw:Help:Export#Export format. I don't understand all your questions (and some of them have probably lost info due to formatting problems), but I hope that helps. Graham87 14:52, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

wikimedia sites not loading with BSNL BroadbandEdit

Hello. I have access to two different ISPs, and three devices. Around a couple of months ago, I realised AWB was giving me an error during start-up whenever I was using BSNL Broadband. At the same time, enwiki was loading sort of slowly in browser. It was working totally fine via VPN, or different ISP. But since last 2-3 days, enwiki, and commons are not even loading through BSNL Broadband. I switched back n forth between BSNL Broadband, and a different ISP in a span of few seconds/minutes. The two websites are loading perfectly with non-BSNL ISP. It is not a device/browser issue. They also load finely if I use VPN with BSNL Broadband. While on BSNL the browser(s) are giving error somewhere along the line "server stopped responding". BSNL uses dynamic IP addeesses. Getting new IP is not solving the issue since last 2-3 days. Is anybody facing similar issues with BSNL, or some other ISP? What might be the cause of this error? Wikimedia/enwiki is not prohibited/banned by BSNL Broadband, or the country. (I will shortly post a link to this discussion at WT:CU, and WT:SPI.) —usernamekiran (talk) 18:19, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

My first thought is either BSNL has screwed up some configuration and some traffic isn't routing properly or you are being speed throttled by them. When you can access it just fine by VPN, that indicates an ISP issue. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 18:53, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Please see wikitech:Reporting a connectivity issue or if you can't access that page, try this copy. Legoktm (talk) 22:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Trying to use User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/massRollback.jsEdit

Installed it, but I can't find the link to use it, and it doesn't have any documentation. Any idea of how to use it? Thanks! NonsensicalSystem(err0r?)(.log) 10:00, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

@NonsensicalSystem, my understanding is that from any user's contributions page, you can click "rollback all", which will essentially do the same as clicking every [rollback] link on the page. The script doesn't do any more than that. Ed talk! 14:50, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Setting default watchlist expiry options in TwinkleEdit

I've opened up a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Twinkle#Watchlist expiry default options to see what, if any, of Twinkle's default watch values should make use of the new watchlist expiry feature coming next week. All are welcome to chime in! ~ Amory (utc) 19:17, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Technical question about templates (theoretical)Edit

Suppose following template "mycooltemplate"

== About ==

This tempalte is extremely useful.


used on many pages. I change at some time "param=3" to "param=4". This will presumably cause a large amount of work for the server having to rebrew all pages using my template. One month later I notice the typo and change "tempalte" to "template" in the built-in documentation. The question: Will this edit cause extra work for the server, or is it smart enough to notice that there is no need in this case? Taylor 49 (talk) 08:50, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

@Taylor 49: It appears to be somewhat stupid. You can test it yourself: User:Alexis Reggae/sandbox1 plus User:Alexis Reggae/sandbox2. After this edit sandbox2 was reparsed 5 seconds later. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:42, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Alexis Reggae: The above template is maybe stupid. It is the simplest case to expose the problem. The question is not stupid. I cannot test editing a template used on a huge number of pages (crucial detail in the question) and recheck whether they are getting updated earlier just due to my edit. Taylor 49 (talk) 04:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
@Taylor 49: You were asking if the edit would "cause extra work for the server, or is it smart enough" and my answer was that the server is "somewhat stupid". I didn't comment on how clever the question was. There is no difference (that I know of) between a template that is used on one page (like User:Alexis Reggae/sandbox1 which despite being in user space is included like a template on User:Alexis Reggae/sandbox2) or on a huge number of pages. Either the page(s) that use the template get reparsed, or they don't. There may be some optimization in planning when and in what order pages get reparsed, not sure about that, but the end result is the same. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:32, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
(original message was split by Taylor 49) Not that you should really worry about this. The developers generally say not to worry about performance/storage. On a more practical note, if you use a separate documentation page (User:Alexis Reggae/sandbox1/doc) an update to the documentation appears to reparse the template page (sandbox1), but not the page that uses said template. (sandbox2) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:42, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
To answer the question directly, yes, any change to a template page will cause the using pages to be updated. This is part of the reason why widely-used templates have a high level of page protection, and why most templates have a separate documentation page which is transcluded onto the template page. --Izno (talk) 16:22, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. Thus the WikiMedia software could be "smart" (remove the "noinclude" part, compare, if identical then do NOT rebrew all pages using the template) but currently isn't. Taylor 49 (talk) 04:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
@Taylor 49: See also WP:SLOW. For "noinclude" this may indeed be possible, but as documentation is often transcluded the actual gain may not be as much as you think. @Izno: True, though the reason for protection in those cases is, I think, not so much server performance but mostly that updating all pages takes time. (in addition to the visibility of widely-used templates) If a widely-used template gets vandalized, it's less than ideal if it takes half an hour for all the vandalism to actually disappear after rollback because reparsing isn't instant. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:32, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks and sorry that I misunderstood about "who" was convicted as stupid, it is the server or actually WikiMedia software. There used to be many arguments for outsourcing template docs to a subpage, but most of them have gone with the advent of LUA and wikidata. This seems to be the last one that is left. Thanks for testing but I suspect that there could be a difference between one use and many uses of a template, and pages with {{#time could be privileged, especially if viewed frequently. Taylor 49 (talk) 12:43, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
@Taylor 49: I think template docs should be transcluded to prevent accidentally breaking a template while making a change to the documentation and to allow users without special privileges to update documentation of protected templates. How do LUA and Wikidata resolve these issues? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:45, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

How to use Greasemonkey?Edit

I'm trying to use Greasemonkey. It won't work: ReferenceError: mw is not defined. I've tried dozens of things, phab:T108323 seemed the most promising but still doesn't work. (at some point after adjusting it with [4] I got that to complain about RLQ not being defined.. sigh)

If someone can provide a working example that would just window.alert(mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber')); (which works on the console but not in GM) I could hopefully figure things out from there. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:20, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I tried [5] and it works.. or so I thought. window.alert(mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber')); works, but window.alert(mw.util.getUrl( 'Sandbox 3000' )); doesn't. (mw.util is undefined..) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:49, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I simply use setInterval() to wait for the required globals, e.g.:
var myInt = setInterval(function () {
	if (!window.$ || ! return;

	// Do stuff

}, 50);
But I too would be interested to know if there are slicker ways. Nardog (talk) 16:01, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Nardog: Thanks, in combination with the stuff from stackoverflow it appears to work now.   It's not very pretty, but oh well. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:58, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Images misaligned on mobile website in infoboxesEdit

Hi. I don't know why, but on some pages with {{infobox election}} — e.g. 2019 Bolivian general election and 2020–21 United States Senate special election in Georgia — the images are misaligned on the mobile website. I cannot figure out what causes this. It happens on my phone, on my computer in the mobile site, and in screenshots I've seen of at least these two pages from other people. How can this be fixed? One thing I did is I made sure the aspect ratios of the photos in the Bolivian one are all the same, but that changed nothing apparently.

(This was reposted after the original was archived with no responses).

DemonDays64 (talk) 17:58, 29 November 2020 (UTC) (please ping on reply)

I don't see any misalignment, but I do see the photos rendered in different sizes when I switch to mobile view (in Firefox for Mac OS). In the desktop view, the photos are all rendered the same size. I recommend that you start a thread at Template talk:Infobox election, the talk page for that template. Including screen shots will be helpful. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:18, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Jonesey95: that's what I mean -- the sizes are all different in many infoboxes at least for elections. Thanks. Question -- how can I include a screenshot? Idk how that licensing would work; should I just have an imgur link or something? DemonDays64 (talk) 06:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC) (please ping on reply)

New parameter in Template:Infobox languageEdit

I am asking to add a new "Status" parameter to the template in connection with the creation of the article Degree of endangerment --友里(Talk) 11:20, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

From the technical side it's no problem, but it should be discussed with the relevant projects (see the talk page of the template). A description where exactly in the template and how is helpful, too. The template is used in 9000 articles. --mfb (talk) 11:48, 30 November 2020 (UTC)