User talk page modificationEdit

Your link in the "Leave me a message" section was linking to User:CambridgeBayWeather rather then to here, I changed it for you. Also, regarding this edit, on English Wikipedia, use a period for a decimal, not a comma (see WP:MOSNUM). Cheers, --kelapstick(bainuu) 13:56, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the corrections. In both cases, it was my oversight. I am well aware that in the English-speaking world decimal points and grouping commas are used for displaying numeric values. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 06:50, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
No problem, I figured you already knew about the decimal comma format, just making sure. Happy editing. --kelapstick(bainuu) 10:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Kula Kangri location mapEdit

Hello. I have reverted your latest edit at Kula Kangri and have posted a comment at Talk:Kula Kangri explaining why. Thank you.--Racerx11 (talk) 13:33, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

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TURKS & CAICOS ISLANDSEdit

Hello, My name is Sorin Cosoveanu and I'm interested about the administrative divisions of countries. I'm writing to you on the subject of the administrative districts of the Turks & Caicos Islands; your article on the matter seems to be very well informed; please let me know which was the source for the information. I'm asking you this because I have a controversy with Mr. Gwillim Law who keeps the site at www.statoids.com on this matter; I'm convinced about the existence of the administrative districts, but I haven't "direct proofs"! Thank you!

78.96.152.70 (talk) 15:56, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello Sorin, sorry I am on vacation at the moment and have only sporadic access to the internet. I have to look at that topic anew. I hope to write more before next weekend. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 20:53, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

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Reply on my Talk PageEdit

Hi Ratzer I have left a reply on my talk page in relation to you comments on the Capricorn and Bunker Group article --Whodidwhat (talk) 05:11, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Atze SchröderEdit

Not only is the picture you posted completely irrelevant. Its also not a real picture. Read the description, its a photoshop made to look what the artist imagines him to look like without hair. --80.153.189.114 (talk) 18:59, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Well then... thanx for the revert. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 20:24, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

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"List of maritime features in the Spratly Islands"Edit

Thanks for your recent improvements.
In the edit comment of your edit, you state & ask: "7.5 ha, not 75 (are the others also wrong by a factor of 10?)"
After looking, I see that the "quoted source" does not actually support any of these numbers.
( a) Bother! b) I wonder if that will teach me not to trust quoted sources without checking them?)

Where did you get the 7.5ha number from?
(Obviously, it's a much more useful source than the "quoted source"!!) Cheers (and again, thanks), Pdfpdf (talk) 10:36, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

It's crazy, I don't find the 7.5 hectares source anymore, at least for the moment. Here is a very current (2015-02-20) source that says China has built a 63,000 sq m artificial island at Hughes Reef. That would be 6.3 hectares. Still, nowhere near 75 hectares. But I haven't given up of re-locating my original 7.5 hectare source. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 11:58, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
It's nice to read that someone else sometimes experiences the same problems as me - it almost makes me feel "normal" (whatever that means ... )
Thanks for the reply. If you ever find the reference, could you add it to the article please? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:04, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
This one talks about 75,000 square yards. Perhaps it was my mistake of not looking and taking that number as square meters. This number in yards exactly translates to 63,000 square meters, using two valid digits. But why do you Americans have such funny units anyways ;-)? Greetings--Ratzer (talk) 12:10, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
Go wash out your mouth with soap!! (I'm an Ozzie, not a Yank.) (BTW: I agree with you.) Pdfpdf (talk) 12:15, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
Oh wow, beautiful country (as far as I heard and read, unfortunately never been there). And again, I didn't look. Sorry about that. The soap tasted awful! But it's funny anyways, the countries of the "empire" (Elizabeth II is your queen, too, is she not?) don't use "imperial units" anymore, but some country in North America still does... Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 12:22, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
Agreed! ;-) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:24, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
P.S. Sorry about the soap.

btw: The Times article you quote says 63,000 sq m. Alternatively, a Janes article (15 Feb 2015) says 75,000 sq m.

a) Take your pick? b) Don't take it too seriously? c) Some other option? ;-) Pdfpdf (talk) 12:48, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
(Nice talking to you)

I think it is alright to mention both values together with footnotes in a text. If one value must be chosen, normally I would pick the more reputable source, or the more recent. As far as I can see, both sources are reputable, and both date from February 2015. Perhaps The Times is a tick more reputable?--Ratzer (talk) 08:34, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
I have insufficient knowledge of the candidates to feel sufficiently comfortable expressing an opinion. Conversely, you convey to me the impression that you do, so I'm very happy to go with what you think is best. With thanks, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:35, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Word of ThanksEdit

Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). Bold textThanks bro, im very proud to be there in the whole world as my Island was seen through many people...As a boy who grew up at Iwa Island and felt the pain and how we live...To say that, my Island is still the best ever..My Jourveny SURVIVAL THE FITTEST..Thank you bro and God Bless You always..

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Tizard BankEdit

That's a nice map! (What a shame that there aren't more maps of South China Sea banks on that site.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:03, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

By-the-way: I was looking at de.wikipedia and noticed you'd found a name of "Centre Cay" for Zhongzhou / Ban Than. The edit history (26 May 2015) tells me you found it here, but that page is now a [dead link]. In case you want a live link, I found https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/taiwan/taiping.htm - a not particularly neutral point-of-view, but still probably a WP:RS(?) Pdfpdf (talk) 14:26, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
@Pdfpdf: Thank you. That wasn't good practice of mine to document the source only in the edit summary, not in the article. Whatever, this source had disappeared a while ago, like many short island articles of ham radio operator with call sign dc3mf (his name is Wolfang Schippke, I don't know what happened to him, years ago I exchanged a few e-mails with him). Nice that you found Centre Cay documented elswhere. Surely that source has a political bias towards the ROC, but the information regarding Centre Cay there is unpolitical, Centre Cay is a neutral western/english name. I'm thinking if and how we should document this. Thanks again, and greetings.
P.S. I found some Wolfgang Schippke's articles elswhere, like this one, but not the one about Itu Aba, and also no index page. And no hint on his pages of how to contact him.
Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 21:31, 4 May 2018 (UTC)--Ratzer (talk) 21:31, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
"Last updated June 2000". Any contact details from then are very likely to have changed, anyway. Pdfpdf (talk) 00:20, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
What is it you are thinking of how to document? Are you referring to how to document "Centre Cay" as a name for the place? If so, yes, it's problematic. I've been looking at gazetteers and other sources of geographic information for several years, and this is the first time I've found "Centre Cay" on a site that's not a forum or blog. Even so, I don't think www.globalsecurity.org would be my first choice as a WP:RS! And then as you say, "how should we (you?) document this?". With en:Zhongzhou Reef I did this. With en:Tizard Bank I did much less. With de:Tizard-Bank, perhaps you could insert it into " ... wird noch Zhongzhou Reef oder Ban Than Reef zwischen ... "? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 00:20, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
I look over those articles and I shall see what I can improve from my perspective. I was not aware that this little cay had an Zhongzhou Reef article of its own in the en-WP. I just inserted some more precise distances. I also wanted to measure the area as it appears exposed on sat images, but its shape does not appear to be very stable even within a few years. Just compare the sat images on HERE and Wikimapia (unfortunately month and year of the images don't appear to be documented). Cheers,-Ratzer (talk) 08:21, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Macclesfield BankEdit

Sorry, but this change just doesn't work on my screen - the page just looks like a mess, and the table on the left just becomes longer and narrower. Also, even at upright=3, the chart is too small to read. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 16:07, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Pdfpdf:, I only tried the upright setting with the standard width of 1920 pixels. On narrower displays, I would expect the effect that you describe. Anyways, even in full display that map is barely legible, I hope to find a better version. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 18:14, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

South Cina SeaEdit

How's it going? I see you've added some more maps - good work. Is there anything you are waiting on from me? Changing subject a little, and a propos of nothing in particular except my own amusement, I came across this. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:17, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Pdfpdf, thank you, I'm doing a thousand things at the same time, but now thanks to you :-) I got hooked to the South China Sea again... Lately on your disc. page, I raised a number of separate issues that should be resolved one by one, in exchange between you and me, whereby I think your expertise of the area is much greater than mine. I haven't had much time to look for reliable sources, which will be essential for resolving disputes and for getting closer to the truth. Greetings, --Ratzer (talk) 11:31, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
No worries. (The fact that the winner of the 2018 Archibald Prize has just been announced has distracted me back there for the last few days, and meanwhile there's still a lot of work to be done on Adelaide Park Lands. I agree that there's no shortage of things to do and distractions from doing them! ;-) Getting back on topic: I thought I had addressed your questions by pointing you at Pub161, but on reflection, that probably isn't the case. There's no hurry, but when it suits you, I would find it useful to have a "list of issues" that you think we can work on. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:59, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Sailing DirectionsEdit

Let me just start by addressing this immensely helpful set of NGA publications. I have been working with these for many years, and used them as reference in dozens if not hundreds of cases. Certainly, one can extract geographic information out of them. But their prime purpose is navigation with ships. When it comes to geographic issues, in case of doubt they are not the reference of choice. What do you think? --Ratzer (talk) 15:27, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

What would be your reference(s) of choice?
I find the NGA a readily accessible reference of high reliability within an "ocean" mainly filled with innacurate and/or unreliable sources. The NGA have gazetteers which I find highly reliable. When one can find access to the UK Admiralty stuff, it's good, and of high reliabilty, but rarely can I find something available that I want, and when I do, it's not notably different from NGA data. (I think that might be because NGA get a lot of their stuff from the UK Admiralty, and vice versa.) I've just remembered the Durham University IBRU: Centre for Borders Research. They have good stuff. Home, Publications Pdfpdf (talk) 14:32, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 
photo in sailing directions

P.S. The sailing directions are in public domain, including the small inserted photographs of islands, unless noted otherwise (Courtesy of ...). These photographs are only small and low or medium resolution, but that's better than nothing. I've uploaded a few of them to commons already, such as this one of Inyeug Islet (not in the South China Sea). Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 15:27, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Ah, Pdfpdf, about what I wrote in the preceding paragraph, do you know if older versions of the Sailing Directions can be found online, because it appears that each edition has a different selection of island photographis in it?

That doesn't surprise me. (I've discovered the paragraph numbers in Pub161 have changed since I last used it, so old references to it now use the wrong paragraph numbers.) In answer to your question: Sorry, I don't know. I've never wanted to use an older version, and the URL always points to the latest version. I'll have a look, but I'm not optomistic - I expect all I'll find is URLs pointing to the latest version. I do (did?) have some older versions of Pub161 on CD, but as I said, the versions I have pre-date the addition of photos of places within the South China Sea. I don't think I'm going to be of much help. Pdfpdf (talk) 14:32, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

westernmost featuresEdit

This nautical chart shows that Charlotte Bank and Scawfell Shoal rest on the continental shelf of Vietnam. Apart from this, I have yet to see a scholarly (or similar) listing of Spratly Islands features that includes those two. As long there is none, I would consider Vanguard Bank the westernmost feature. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 13:13, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Pub161 does. NGA Gazetteer does.
And now it's time for me to learn something from you. How can I see from the map where the continental shelf of Vietnam is?
Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:32, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
I don't see where Pub161 lists Scawfell Shoal as part of the Spratly Islands? Writing about it a few lines after it mentions Vanguard Bank is not a geographical statement, it is a navigational publication. Pub161 is not about Spratly Islands, at the most partially. Or where is Louisa Reef? This pub does not follow geographical groupings.--Ratzer (talk) 21:20, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
What about this geographical description of the Spratly Islands? I have seen more, trying to find them again, but this is a very good one.--Ratzer (talk) 21:20, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Read the spot soundings to get a hint of the continental shelf. It's not exact. Don't have more time now. Just one step at a time :-) Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 21:20, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps this map shows the continental shelf bettter?--Ratzer (talk) 08:27, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
This is also an interesting list, citing its own sources. I have to look at it in detail yet.--Ratzer (talk) 05:37, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
As I said, the IBRU has some good stuff. There are several very good visual depictions of the depths of the SCS; if you want/need them, tell me and I'll dig out the URLs. BTW: As a general comment, I'm not sure about the reliability of www.southchinasea.org, but it certainly contains lots of interesting "stuff"! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:30, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

This documenet is another indirect reference as to Vanguard Bank as the westernmost Spratly feature, in that it reads on page 66: Most of the South China Sea shipping routes pass well west of the Spratly Islands.7. For instance, the main Hong Kong-to-Singapore route comes no closer than 140 km to Vanguard Bank, the nearest "Spratly" feature....--Ratzer (talk) 06:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

This map shows the shipping route, which passes west of Vanguard Bank, but east of Charlotte Bank and Scawfell shoal. Conclusion: The features west of the shipping lanes are not part of the Spratlys, as the shipping lanes run west of all Spratlys.--Ratzer (talk) 07:52, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't like to "conclude" anything on the basis of just one statement from one reference, even when the source is the respected IBRU. It would be nice to have a supporting statement from a second independent reliable source. (Because so far, with the exception of the IBRU, no definitive statements have been made by reliable sources of what is and/or is not part of the Spratlys - we've just had a lot of data from which we've drawn conclusions, and although we mostly agree, in some cases your conclusions aren't always identical to my conclusions, and it is also possible that in some cases we might both have made the wrong conclusion!) And then some of the stuff is just plain confusing. e.g. your new map seems to indicate Julia Shoal is part of the Spratlys, yet it's well to the west of the shipping lanes. (And I've previously mentioned that Pub 161 puts Charlotte & Scawfell in the same chapter as the rest of the Spratlys, without making any useful statements.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:46, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

DK1 rigsEdit

Changing subject, your map looks like it marks the individual locations of the DK1 rigs. I've not seen them marked on any other map, so I'm off to make a crop of that portion of the map and put it in the DK1 rigs page. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:46, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Y'know, you're being a bit naughty making changes to the article without providing supporting references. For example: Where did you get those co-ordinates from?

Also, are you sure that the dots on the maps are the DK1 rigs? I think they are, but I don't have a supporting reference yet. Do you? (Bed time.) Pdfpdf (talk) 14:27, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

No I am not sure. Just DK1/10 is mentioned here. Regarding the other DK1's, I haven't found referenes, so I don't have any coordinates. Although here could be one of those on Rifleman Bank (they're not all on Bombay Castle). Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 14:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
BTW, on Bombay Castle I have not found any structure, much to my surprise. This looks like a ship, 40 meters long and 7 meters wide.--Ratzer (talk) 14:41, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
It's been a matter of great annoyment to me for years that I've never been able to find any of the DK1 structures anywhere. But then, I've never been able to find the lighthouse on Ladd Reef, which is a similar sized & shaped structure, despite having been able to find other things on Ladd Reef, so I've become a bit philosophical about it. I mean, if one can find a ship that's 7m wide, why can't one find a helipad which must be at least 7m in diameter? (I find it really annoying.) And no, they're not all on Bombay Castle, or at least I don't think they are, but the only reference I have for Rifleman Bank only mentions Bombay Castle. (Another thing I find annoying.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 15:12, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
The Ladd Reef Lighthouse is here.--Ratzer (talk) 15:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

DK1 rigs articleEdit

Note that the DK1 rigs article is a combination of a translation of the Vietnamese wikipedia article and quotes from a Vietnamese journal article written in english or translated into english. If they say the rigs are on the continental shelf, there's a reason. Maybe it's fact, or maybe is propaganda, but if you're going to change it, you need a supporting reference. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:23, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

I can add a supporting reference, if you insist, and if it's only our big new map that shows that Vanguard Bank and those to the east of it are not on the continental shelf. With all the online sources available, I rather think that anyone who contends those banks _are_ on the continental shelf would have to find support for his claim.--Ratzer (talk) 15:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
It's past 1am, & I have to get up tomorrow. I didn't say you were wrong. What I said was that the supporting references that the article quotes say certain things, and if you are going to say something different to them, then you need a reference to back up your statements. I also said that the statements they are making might be propaganda, in which case you need to be doubly careful about negating and/or refuting such statements. South China Sea articles already get enough edit warring from occasional passers-by without fanning the flames by pointing out the obvious errors and biases! Anyway - till next time, Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 15:50, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
I didn't even say something different, I just added something, in the southwestern Spratlys and. Should there be a necessity to back up the fact that the Spratlys are not on a continental shelf, it should be done in the Spratly Islands article (if it has not been done so already), not in the DK1 rigs article, IMHO. Greetings, or better Good Morning, since you will probably read this in the morning, after a deep and sound sleep.--Ratzer (talk) 19:00, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Dangerous GroundEdit

This scholarly article suggests that Dangerous Ground is not a geographical term: The Spratly Islands were long known to Mariners as "Dangerous Ground" because of their uncharted reefs.--Ratzer (talk) 08:47, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Similarly, the Encyclopedia Britannica writes: Some areas in the central South China Sea are not well sounded, and nautical charts bear the notation “dangerous ground.”--Ratzer (talk) 09:13, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

BTW, I called the therm fuzzy because the second paragraph of the article Dangerous Ground (South China Sea) starts with There are few precise definitions... --Ratzer (talk) 08:47, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Hmmm. That doesn't make the sickening crunch when your wooden-hulled boat hits them any quieter or softer, or the damage any less. The whole problem was they weren't precise; if they'd been precise, I expect they would have been less of a problem. I expect that the poor mariners trying to get from A to B didn't really care very much at all about the pronoucements of the scholars and geographers. The mariners knew they were in the area called Dangerous Ground, they generally knew where they were were, and they knew it was dangerous. Why does it matter what scholars or geographers might have thought? (These days, anyone with half a brain has a GPS and a depth sounder with them and such ambiguities no longer exist.) Pdfpdf (talk) 12:23, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

MapEdit

Hi User:Pdfpdf, did you know this map? Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 15:04, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

No, I've not seen this map before. Maybe not this exact map, but similar maps. For example, it's very similar to the map out of that Master's thesis I mentioned a while ago. Why do you ask? Pdfpdf (talk) 15:27, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
Actually, the more I look at it, the more I like this map. It incorporates nearly all of the features that other maps only show one or two of. Pdfpdf (talk) 06:14, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

This map shows - as far as I can tell - all main features (atolls, detacjhed reefs and banks) of the Spratly Islands. Additionally, it shows many micro features, such as individual reefs, cays and islets within an atoll (although not all, that would not be practical at that scale). It also shows the 200-meter isobath (at the edge of the lightest blue coloring), which, according to this geographical description is the limit of the Spratly Islands everywhere except in the north, where the 12°N circle of latitude is considered the limit. This publication makes one exception to this delimiting of the Spratly Islands in that it includes the Luconia Shoals that lie just landwards of that isobath.

One thing that great map does not show is the Dangerous Ground(s), presumably because it's a mariners' term, not a geographical term.

Other maps that claim to show most or all of the Spratly Islands, either don't show many of the main features, or are a joke by comparison, or both.

--Ratzer (talk) 10:29, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. As I said "It incorporates nearly all of the features that other maps only show one or two of". I find it interesting that it includes Julia Shoal, but not Royal Bishop. (And it only goes to 108E, so it doesn't even show my far western friends ... - Never mind.)
Good work. Pdfpdf (talk) 12:49, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

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SourceEdit

Hey Ratzer- in this 2005 edit [1] you gave area figures for the islands of the Northern Mariana Islands. Your edit has remained basically unchanged until this day, but the problem is: there's no source given, and the individual pages for each island show different area figures in many cases. You must have had a source for this edit- was it the Census Bureau? Now that Wikipedia has evolved to its current form, I am having trouble including unsourced information on the page any longer. Thanks for any help. Geographyinitiative (talk) 16:53, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Geographyinitiative:, sorry I don't remember anymore where I found the area figures. If you can identify a reliable source for the area figures that add up to the official total for the CNMI, please go ahead and replace the figures put by me. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 21:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. Haha- that's my problem! I'm having trouble finding a good source! But the figures you give do seem pretty solid. Geographyinitiative (talk) 21:47, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative: As I said, I could not replicate the area figures entered by myself 15 years ago, as I did not find the source anymore. But WP today must have reliable and dependable evidence and supporting documents. My area figures then should be replaced with documented area figures from a good source. What do you think of this FWS source? It refers to a NOAA publication (which you would have to download), which in turn states on page 101 that Land areas were calculated using Geographic Information System (GIS) techniques. Since one island (Farallon de Medinilla) was missing in that second source, its area was obtained from a USGS publication. I trust that U.S. federal agencies or institutions like FWS and NOAA would know of better sources for island area figures if there were any. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 10:14, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Here another NOAA publication with area figures in square miles with two decimal places. I have to see yet how they compare. And yet another source is Citypopulation.de, which states CNMI Central Statistics Division as original source. There, you obtaion the area figures only by clicking on the individual islands or other subdivisions, which can be a bit tedious. And then there is still another source, but not online: Edwin Horace Bryan: Guide to place names in the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands: (the Marshall, Caroline and Mariana Islands) (Paperback). Honolulu: Pacific Scientific Information Center, 1971. Also with island area figures in square miles with two decimal places. If you are interested, I send you a scan of the relevant page. But as there seem to be different sources that don't completely agree on the island area figures, I think we may disregard the last one as it is the oldest.--Ratzer (talk) 10:27, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
And here, just for the documentation, the list from the latest CNMI Statistical Yearbook that I found online.--Ratzer (talk) 20:16, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
And still another source: An islands database of more than 15.000 islands worldwide that are larger than one square kilometer (which includes the 15 main islands of the CNMI), with many environmental data, but also area and population, determind by a GIS. I really wasn't out for many sources, but I'm documenting here when I stumble across one... Won't have time to compare all those sources... help me to assess their quality... --Ratzer (talk) 21:35, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Hey @Geographyinitiative:, finally I found this highly interesting German-language site, which compares area figures from different sources and measuremenets for the CNMI islands: Über die Marianen. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 11:53, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
I have added that German link and its archived form to the page for now. You have given me a lot of good material to work with with! Please add what you see useful to the page! Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:08, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
Another NOAA site, where the islands are linked one by one, with information for each one, including metric area figures. Haven't checked yet if they are the same as in other NOAA publications, or different.--Ratzer (talk) 12:13, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
Great find! I have added the pdfs and an archived copy of the pdfs to each island's page with the area figure they give in the pdf. I'm sure there will be minor divergences here and there, but at least Wikipedia has sourced numbers on those pages now. Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:40, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
I have added most of the sources you talk about into the mainspace. There are divergences between them of course, but they are pretty close. Geographyinitiative (talk) 16:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Hey @Geographyinitiative:, can you directly jump to this page without any fuss? This is from a copyrighted book that you can "borrow" at archive.org, but you need to register there before. I think that's well worth it. Greetings,--Ratzer (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

I see it. I will add this in- thanks. (I have an account; I love Brewster Kahle.) Geographyinitiative (talk) 22:57, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

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