It's autumn!

Note: When emailing me, please also post a {{You've got mail}} template to this page.
I check my Wikipedia email account infrequently.

Wise words given to a blocked editor: This absolute adherence to the idea that your interpretation of the rules is paramount
and everyone else's input is merely an obstacle to overcome is an accurate summary of how you ended up in this position.

Basalisk inspect damageberate 4 August 2013
Well said!Liz Read! Talk!
No matter how cute you are, expect no quarter in the cruel world of Wikipedia.

While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused.
Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies.
If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them.
Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures.
Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus. (WP:NOT)

Recommended reading for editors who are upset RIGHT NOW!:
Tips for the angry new user - Gamaliel
Staying cool when the editing gets hot!

If you came here just to insult me, I will delete your comments without a reply.
And if I wasn't involved, personal attacks clearly warrant a block.

Administrators' newsletter – September 2020

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2020).

  Administrator changes

  AngelaJcw69Just ChillingPhilg88Viajero

  CheckUser changes


  Guideline and policy news


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:56, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Can user: please be blocked ASAP. CLCStudent (talk) 23:43, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 23:50, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

"Song of Hope"

Hi Liz - you deleted Template:Song of Hope as I requested, but you moved it straight into mainspace... you probably shouldn't have done that as it's already been declined at Draft:Song For Hope and effectively you've just bypassed the AfC process. Richard3120 (talk) 00:45, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Richard3120, I'll look into it. I didn't know it was a draft. It was tagged for deletion as a template when it was clearly an article, not a template. I'll check it. Thanks for letting me know. Liz Read! Talk! 01:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I tagged it because it was obviously in the wrong mainspace, but I thought it would be deleted outright, not moved. I can see why it wasn't accepted at AfC, the sourcing is very poor. Richard3120 (talk) 02:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Zenati (music producer)

I see that you deleted the article. I would be grateful if you could return it to me so i can continue to edit it and try to get some people to help me edit it to so that we can go over it before submitting it.ZNTEAI (talk) 18:17, 6 September 2020 (UTC)Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).

Speedy deletion of People's Hero (disambiguation)


First of all many thanks for your admin work.

Looks like you deleted People's Hero (disambiguation) with edit comment G14: Unnecessary disambiguation page. I'm not sure that the uselessness of this dab page is so obvious at first glance. There were a number of quite notable awards, especially in Eastern Block countries, with the names People's Hero, National Hero, Hero of the People or just Hero, often among the highest-rank awards. The translation of these titles is often used interchangeably. The topic is covered with more detail and context at Hero (title), however a dab page would seem to be a useful complement to directly point to the related articles. I cannot see what the dab page looked like before the deletion though. The existence of the Yugoslav Order of the People's Hero and the Hero of the People (Albania), alone, invalidate the G14 rationale imho. Note that there are still incoming links at Hero (disambiguation) and Order of the People's Hero.

Would you care to restore the dab page, even in a personal space, or do you wish me to raise it at DRV? Place Clichy (talk) 09:32, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)@Place Clichy: I'm afraid Liz is not around much at the moment (see notice at the top of the page). However, I don't think there will be any harm in re-creating the page if it has the additional DAB entries you describe here - it won't meet WP:G14 then and would need a fuller discussion to be deleted. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:13, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Is this disruptive editing?

I see that you have become aware of User:Soul Crusher's creations as you've nominated 9 categories they created for speedy deletion. Other editors have also pointed out that many of their edits have issues, whether it's problematic redirects, creating multiple articles with WP:NALBUM issues. At what point does this become WP:NOTGETTINGIT? And is this behavior acceptable for womeone who is WP:AUTOPATROLLED?  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 18:22, 7 September 2020 (UTC) @Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars, Ss112, and Richard3120: Courtesy ping. These editors have had more interactions than me so they might be better able to explain.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 18:29, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

@Bait30: just for information, in case you and Liz are not aware of it, Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars started an ANI discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1046#Soul Crusher's redirects, and the three of us have discussed the issue on Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars' talk page. I'm just puzzled that someone with 14 years on Wikipedia and over 25,000 edits seems to disregard some basic Wikipedia guidelines regarding notability. Richard3120 (talk) 18:46, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Asking for help

Greetings! I kindly ask You for guidance in subject of redirecting art. Danielewicz to Danielewicz family. User Staszek Lem redirected Danielewicz to Danielewicz family without any consulting with me, the author of the art. It seems to me that this redirection is not proper as there are many families with surname Danielewicz and redirecting art. to Danielewicz family could indicate thate there is one family. I see not point of this redirection so I reverted it and notified Staszek about this, asking hin to not change anything without previouse consultation. Few hours later, I see that it goes back to where it was by John of Reading and TT me - still without any ntification or trying to discuss matter. Now I changed it back as it was from start again but as those guys as above seems to do what they wish to do without any discussion, I ask for help - what to do in this situation? Please advise Camdan (talk) 11:06, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 40

  The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 40, July – August 2020

  • New partnerships
    • Al Manhal
    • Ancestry
    • RILM
  • #1Lib1Ref May 2020 report
  • AfLIA hires a Wikipedian-in-Residence

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --10:14, 10 September 2020 (UTC) Hello Liz, I responded to your original comment on the speedy deletion of the page I was attempting to create for Camster, but you may not have seen it. Still pretty new to Wikipedia so havent gotten it all down. The contention for the page was that it is not a directory for businesses and I am attempting to try and understand a way to ensure it does not come off that way and would appreciate your help. My only intent is to provide information about the site for readers as I can see many like sites have done such and want to follow suit. We had noticed those pages and wanted to ensure that we provided similar facts and information about our site. Trying to find the best way about it and could appreciate any help you could provide. Thank you.Eloravsmedia (talk) 20:55, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Jadgali language and G14

Hi, this is about Jadgali language (disambiguation). WP:G14 doesn't apply to redirects targeting pages that serve a disambiguation purpose, like certain types of lists or indexes. The target of this redirect does disambiguate the language name "Jadgali" (along with others), and the redirect itself is used in the hatnote at the main article. – Uanfala (talk) 10:17, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Category:Los Angeles Kings logos

Category:Los Angeles Kings logos is no longer empty. Please will you undelete it?

Thanks. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:49, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

BrownHairedGirl, you should probably ask at WP:REFUND. Liz appears to be experiencing technical difficulties (see the message at the top of this page), and judging from her activity it appears that that only part of the Wikipedia interface she has access to at the moment is the delete button. – Uanfala (talk) 11:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, @Uanfala. I hope that Liz's computer woes get resolved soon.
The issue is now moot, since the Category:Los Angeles Kings logos has been emptied again. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:12, 19 September 2020 (UTC)


Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:44, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors September 2020 Newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors September 2020 Newsletter

Hello and welcome to the September GOCE newsletter, a brief update of Guild activities since June 2020.

                 Current and upcoming events

September Drive: Our current backlog-elimination drive is open until 23:59 on 30 September (UTC) and is open to all copy editors. Sign up today!

Election reminder: our end-of-year Election of Coordinators opens for nominations on 1 December. Coordinators normally serve a six-month term and are elected on an approval basis. Self-nominations are welcome. If you've thought of helping out at the Guild, or know of another editor who would make a good coordinator, please consider standing for election or nominating them here.

Drive and Blitz reports

June Blitz: An uncorrected typo (even copy editors make copy editing mistakes!) led to an eight-day "leap blitz" from 14 to 21 June, focusing on requests and articles tagged in May. 19 participating editors claimed 54 copy edits. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

July Drive: Over 750,000 words of articles were copy edited for this event, keeping pace with the previous three self-isolated drives. Of the 38 people who signed up, 30 copyedited at least one article. Final results and awards are listed here.

August Blitz: From 16 to 22 August, we copy edited articles tagged in June and July 2020 and requests. 12 participating editors completed 37 copy edits on the blitz. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Other news

June election: Jonesey95 was chosen to continue as lead coordinator, assisted by Baffle gab1978, Tdslk, Twofingered Typist, and first-time coordinator Puddleglum2.0. Reidgreg took a break after serving for a couple years. Thanks to everyone who participated!

Progress report: As of 01:33, 18 September 2020 (UTC), GOCE copyeditors had processed 532 requests since 1 January and there were 38 requests awaiting completion on the Requests page. The backlog of articles tagged for copy-editing stood at 433 (see monthly progress graph above).

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978, Puddleglum2.0, Tdslk and Twofingered Typist.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 16:52, 19 September 2020 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Jackmcbarn (talk) 16:52, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Liz Read! Talk!, Hirolovesswords (talk) is being abusive and censoring legitimate information. How do we fix this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Setog1 (talkcontribs) 03:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)


I don't think these drafts qualify for G-13 deletions because they have been edited recently.

FloridaArmy (talk) 02:18, 22 September 2020 (UTC) ‎

FloridaArmy, I've restored two that were still deleted. In the case of stale drafts, G13s, please remove CSD tags on them if you edit them after they've been tagged. They are an exception to the guideline of not removing CSD tags from your own page creations. Liz Read! Talk! 15:36, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Okay. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 15:43, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Edit conflicted with a delete

Hi Liz. I was actually in the midst of declining the CSD of Pnictogen hydrides when it failed because you accepted it. My summary was just along the lines that I'm already very conservative about unneeded redirects, but ones from plurals are pretty standard and useful for aids to linking and those readers who don't know our singular article titling convention. Would you be willing to undelete? Thanks, –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 15:22, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Okay, Deacon Vorbis, I have restored it. I tend to delete redirects that are simply plural titles of actual articles. Liz Read! Talk! 15:31, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for reconsidering. I guess it's just a little funny where people fall on the useful vs. not issue for redirects. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 15:34, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
I've removed a lot of tags from redirects that were tagged as implausible that I thought were legitimate. But my general rule is to delete ones that are longer versions of a simpler article title (using the same words) unless it is an official alternative name. But I guess it comes down to individual judgment. Liz Read! Talk! 15:40, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Block evader

Please block user:2600:1015:B063:3D03:14D4:F085:B9D7:F70A ASAP. CLCStudent (talk) 23:55, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Money trees has taken care of it. Liz Read! Talk! 00:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Trilla Venus

Hi Liz - thanks for speedy deleting the Trilla Venus article. There's also an orphaned redirect at Trilla venus. Are you also able to delete and salt that too or does it need to go to RfD? Deus et lex (talk) 05:02, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

I see you have already done this too now - thank you! Deus et lex (talk) 05:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Padlet deletion

Can you give some explanation of why you deemed the Padlet page "unambiguous advertising"? It was a straight-down-the-line - factual descriptions, no superlatives, and I even added text about questions about their business model to stave off this kind of action. I have no relationship to the site, which is linked to by dozens or hundreds of educational institution web pages. I was asked to use the site, and when I tried to find out about it, it was not on Wikipedia so I researched it myself. Do I have to make up bad stuff to say about them? Put another way, please tell me what your beef was so I can recreate the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oblivy (talkcontribs) 05:36, 24 September 2020 (UTC) \

Since there has been no response to this I'm going to assume you have no substantive objection, at least one consistent with the text of G11, to the page being recreated. I vow to make it ambiguously unpromotional, just as I did the first time, but mostly to avoid a revert war infraction. To the extent this goes against assume good faith, I'm going to rest on Hanlon's Razor, that you deleted it carelessly, without considering much beyond the fact another account had flagged it for speedy deletion. I note that newly-registered account has recently been scolded for misapplying speedy deletion. If you're going to object, please do it now and help me avoid wasting more time.Oblivy (talk) 08:45, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Speedy delete of empty "births in year" categories

Please reconsider the speedy-deletion requests for the empty "births in year" categories. I think all but one of the "by year" categories in Category:Empty categories awaiting deletion were nominated by you.

These pages have a purpose. They are part of a "births by year" set. Deleting one means when someone writes an article about someone who was born in that year, there will be a non-empty red-category if they blindly add it to the appropriate category.

I can see several ways to solve this, all equally good:

  • Have a bot delete and create these categories as they become populated or empty.
  • For historical times, such as before A.D. 1000, have a births by decade or births by century category instead, and allow them to be empty.
  • Change the Wikimedia software to allow "dynamic categories" which only exist when populated, with their description based on a template. For example, you could have a meta-category-template for "{{YEAR}} births" and if someone put a page in the category 2025 births the category would come into existence. If the category became empty, it would become a WP:REDCAT. This would require discussion AND coding, which means it won't happen soon.

The alternative, which is to manually delete categories then manually re-create them when they are no longer empty, is worse than just leaving all the categories in place even if they are empty.

What do you think? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 20:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi, davidwr,
There is a lot going on here which I'll try to keep short.
First, every day, I tag empty categories that appear on a database list. It's just part of my daily routine. There are specific criteria for when we can allow empty categories and they don't include the fact that it might be handy in the future to have a category that is currently empty.
Second, about a year or so ago, we had a vandal who would go to obscure historical figures and change their birth/death dates by a year or two. They did a lot of damage, with multiple IP accounts, that was eventually undone. But the only reason that we found them out was because the birth/death categories showed up as empty categories. These categories are often occupied by only one person so if that birth/death date is changed, the category shows up as empty. So, I'm always a bit suspicious when I see them listed.
Some of the yearly birth categories recently started showing up on the empty categories list and, yes, I tagged them. But I didn't want to delete them until I investigated. It turns out that it is not a vandal but, I'm guessing, it's a thoughtful editor who is taking into account the fact that the historical record is less than 100% accurate. So, if a person is said to have been born c. 873, they will put them in the category, 870s births rather than 873 births. So, it's not vandalism, just a different interpretation of how to categorize dates of historical figures.
That all being said, I still don't like deleting yearly categories. So, if you go into my recent contributions, you'll find that I've recategorized a few people with a strict interpretation of their birth year. That is an arguable decision that I'm sure could be challenged and might very well be reverted by another editor in the future.
It's really easy to create new categories when they are needed but your bot idea would be useful, I think. There is a bot that does this kind of thing for our maintenance categories, the bot creates the categories, they become empty and get deleted but are recreated by the bot should we need them again. But I'm not sure how to bring this idea about. You might go to one of our current group of bot creators or the Wikipedia:Bot Approvals Group and see if this would be a process that would be easy to implement.
If you are seeking a different way to organize our yearly birth and death categories, that is an enormous decision that is beyond the ability of one admin to implement as it is a fundamental change to the category structure and it involves thousands of categories. It's not impossible to change but there are a lot of people who will want to make their opinion known on the subject. You'll need to bring that discussion to Categories for Discussion.
I guess I haven't kept this very short. Bottom line for now is if I can find someone who is born in the year of a CSD C1 tagged year of birth category, I will recategorize them so the category is no longer empty. If I can't find someone born in that year, then the empty category will need to be deleted for right now. I hope this explanation helps. Liz Read! Talk! 20:49, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for the thorough explanation. I had not considered that red-cat year-of-births would actually be useful in catching vandals. That gives me pause. I still like the idea of a bot that would create and delete the categories AND while it's at it, flag for possible category-membership-related vandalism. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 20:58, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Your partial block

I still disagree with your block of User:Epicderby. The account is evidently a VOA and they really went against BLP violations by adding explicit and erroneous content to the kids article. Please reconsider Megan☺️ Talk to the monster 11:37, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Another admin has lengthened the block. Liz Read! Talk! 11:44, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Please consider this for mostall of these. This is probably overkill but it's worth mentioning. Sadly, this is another case of an editor who is clearly WP:NOTHERE. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 15:49, 25 September 2020 (UTC) Update: All are insults or worse if internet translations and searches are correct. Other NOTHERE editors and IP editors have done similar in the last few days that need similar treatment. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 16:45, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Revdelete request.

Possible copyright violation. The account has been blocked and they have already had some of their other revisions deleted for the same reason. [1]Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:11, 26 September 2020 (UTC).

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 03:13, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Daniel Radcliffe racist friends admission


Twice I've had my additions regarding daniel Radcliffe admission of having racist friends removed. Once with the excuse of not being notable, the other being trivia.

Radcliffe admission is both part of the public and media domain and that makes it notable and important to add. It's both credible and not trivia supported by renowned media reports/sources Hpdh4 (talk) 00:06, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Just because information is published does not make it notable and worth including in an encyclopedia article. Trivial stuff like astrological signs, workout routines and personal habits are included in the press which are not suitable for Wikipedia. Please discuss it on the article talk page. Liz Read! Talk! 00:09, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 September 2020

Draft talk:Sheikh Shaher Sayel Al-Hadid

Did you mean to delete Draft talk:Sheikh Shaher Sayel Al-Hadid as R2? It was neither a redirect nor in mainspace. Jackmcbarn (talk) 03:41, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

My mistake. I was deleting the redirect to it. Thanks for letting me know. Liz Read! Talk! 03:55, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Category:Tornadoes in Montana page

I'm not going to contest the speedy deletion of the Category:Tornadoes in Montana page as the article that will be going on the page is FAR from being completed. I'll just ask this: Can I add the category page back in once the article I'm making is done?ChessEric (talk) 14:31, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, I hope you don't mind, but I borrowed some of the text on your top line and put it in my own talk page (thought it might be useful).ChessEric (talk) 14:38, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Hi, ChessEric,
Just to let you note that empty category tagging (CSD C1) is quite different from other kinds of speedy deletion. Except for a few exeptions (like categories being disussed at CfD or category redirects), empty categories are tagged when they are found. They are placed in a holding category for 7 days. If, after 7 days, they are still empty, they are deleted. If at least one page/article has been placed in the category over that week, then the tag is removed. Also, categories deleted because they are empty can be restored at any time should there be a need for them. This is different from categories that have been deleted through CfD deletion discussions.
So, don't worry, you have 7 days to find a page that is an appropriate fit for this category. And if the category is deleted for being empty, you can recreate it when you do need it. I hope this answers any concerns you have.
And feel free to borrow any user page content you find as long as it is attributed to the editor who wrote it. Thanks for letting me know! Liz Read! Talk! 15:45, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

GDC Technology Limited

Howdy Liz,

Knowing that you are an extremely busy Wiki editor, I shall keep this short. I am an avid follower of digital cinema, and thus have been following GDC Technology for years since GDC has contributed to the world's cinema during its transition from 35mm film to digital cinema. Everything I had written on GDC technology is factual information without any mention or promotion of GDC's products or services. Moreover, I used very reputable and accessible news references such as Bloomberg, Reuters, Variety and The Hollywood Reporter to support my contributions. I would be grateful if you could advise what was inappropriate about my GDC Technology Limited page. Regarding the original accusation from "1292Simon" about "not having enough sources and citations as written to remain published", I replied him in my Talk page.

Justanotherwikipediauser (talk) 16:19, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Justanotherwikipediauser,
As far as I can see, I just deleted a redirect, a link that points from one page to another after an article/draft is moved. It looks like Deb deleted the article you were working on. Liz Read! Talk! 16:24, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

My deleted article

Can you please send to my sandbox the article /wiki/zerion.net — Preceding unsigned comment added by Holtiana (talkcontribs) 19:18, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 19:23, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


Hi, why have you deleted User:SD0001 and a bunch of other pages? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:59, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Redrose64,
After 5 years as an admin, I tried to do a batch delete today for the first time with Twinkle. It was not completely successful. Between myself and Primefac, we restored the pages that were mistakenly deleted by me. Most of them were restored within 5 minutes after deletion but User:SD0001 was one that I missed. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention and will let SD0001 know of my error. Liz Read! Talk! 21:35, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Huggle Userbox?

Hi, I noticed you deleted https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Twsx/Userboxes/Huggle&action=edit&redlink=1 You mentioned previously that you had a batch go south, I was wondering if maybe this was another accidental victim? Thanks! CarbonX (talk) 00:52, 29 September 202vUser:Twsx0 (UTC)

Hi, CarbonX,
Today, editor Twsx was cleaning up their user space and requested that about a dozen user pages get deleted. You should tell them if you want it restored, get their okay and I can do that immediately. But I don't want to restore a page that the page creator doesn't want. Ask Twsx and get back to me. Liz Read! Talk! 01:02, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Not a big deal. I just noticed something wonky on my userpage and saw that you were listed as making the deletion. If Twsx wanted it gone than so be it. Have a great day! 05:16, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Oh woops, I didn't consider the possibility of other people using these userboxes. I hadn't used them in many years, so when I was cleaning out my old subpages I figured I'd just have those removed as well. Sorry about that. If you still want it, you can of course ask to have the page reinstated, absolutely fine with me. I would recommend though that you copy the UBX do your own userspace as I may delete it again some time in the future. Thanks! ~ twsx | talkcont | ~ 13:11, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Draft:David V Golden

Hi, I noticed you deleted 05:11, 29 September 2020 Liz talk contribs protected Draft:David V Golden [Create=Require administrator access] (indefinite) You mentioned previously that you had a batch go south, I was wondering if maybe this was another accidental mistakes? I do need your current expertise in these articles. Thanks!

Yes, i believed this Draft:David V Golden shouldn't be remove. Because i noticed they recently edited. :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:23, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

The draft was deleted twice by administers for basically being an advertisement for a nonnotable podcaster and IP editors were edit-warring over it. It clearly warranted deletion and protection since the article was written both in main space and draft space. I left the draft for the podcast open which you can continue to work on but it didn't look promising. Liz Read! Talk! 03:45, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

hello I'm constantly being bullied. Plz help me

Blocked users are constantly framing and attacking me.

He's making another ID or using the IP address to attack me and ruin the debate, even if he's blocked.

This time, I asked for Sockpuppet investigations.

But it's happening again and again.

He's even attacking me using external homepage.

He is interfering with the debate to keep false information from being deleted in Wikipedia.

All the evidence has been submitted here. [[2]]

I'd like to ask for your advice. Bablos939 (talk) 03:28, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

You've gone to a lot of work filing a SPI, I'd let the SPI clerks & checkusers respond to it which will take more than an hour.
I'd recommend broadening your interests and stop fixating on Interracial marriage which seems to be the point of contention. There are over 6 million articles, please consider working on a different article for a while and get out of this tug-of-war. Right now, you are trying to win a war of attrition and there are literally millions of other subjects where you could edit where you wouldn't run into this editor. If this editor is socking, he will face consequences. Right now, I'd stay off the battlefield. Liz Read! Talk! 03:40, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. I just tried to prevent the wrong blocked users from making false contributions in Wikipedia. I'm going to normalize the document with another debater and leave this text for another one. Thank you for your reply.Bablos939 (talk) 03:54, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Bablos939, I'm sorry for the position you are in. I have been targeted in someone's blog off-Wikipedia and even knowing that the readership was minimal, it's not fun knowing it's out there. Conflicts are very common here on the project but this one has clearly escalated. I hope you find quieter pages where you can contribute. Liz Read! Talk! 04:13, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your advice. do not want to enter that dispute too. I don't really care about winning. All that matters to me is the true informaion in wikipedia. The document has an agreement with other normal debaters. I will only implement the agreement and minimize the dispute.Then I will leave the battlefield immediatelyBold text. thank you.Bablos939 (talk) 05:31, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
There are just some articles that are magnets for disputes. I've seen very good editors get sucked into unwinnable edit wars on some topics. At best, they return later and can do some repair work, at worst, it ends up in Dispute Resolution or Arbitration. Liz Read! Talk! 05:35, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
There are many good editors in Wikipedia and I believe a constructive agreement will keep the document always.I will always keep your advice in mind.thank youBablos939 (talk) 05:48, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2020

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2020).

  Administrator changes

  Ad OrientemHarejLidLomnMentoz86Oliver PereiraXJaM

  Guideline and policy news

  Technical news



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:43, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Trump Org

You reverted my edit with no explanation. As I wrote in the edit summary, the paragraph I removed did not mention the Trump Organization, but alleged misdeeds by members of the Trump family. Kindly undo your revert. Trying to reconnect (talk) 00:56, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

No, I will not undo my revert. Please discuss on the article talk page whether your edit is appropriate. You seem to be removing critical information about this organization over the past few days. Please discuss these moves with other editors first. Liz Read! Talk! 01:03, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Certainly your prerogative. I expect you to show up at the talk page and defend your edit. Trying to reconnect (talk) 02:02, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sensing any toning

As I noted above, Tokenism and the "I have one black friend defense" apply here. They are white supremacist, while relying on white-passing "latinos" as a less-than-honest defensive tactic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C0:C300:B7:DC86:D98F:FCCF:BBC7 (talk) 01:29, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

That is racist and has no place on the WP-5mins after tone it down. Maybe it is time to post a pic of the Proud Boys leader on the page so this sort of obviously racist filth above ceases appearing on WP?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Proud_Boys — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:46:C801:B1F0:F5BB:3B86:E159:625A (talk) 02:17, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, 2601,
I disagree about the Proud Boys but that is not the issue. The issue is not the content but your attitude towards other editors. Disagree politely or don't edit here. That means no name-calling. At all.
Looks like I can't win with editors on the Right or Left tonight. Liz Read! Talk! 02:32, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I am not the same 2601 name caller.:D I am a different one whom was complaining to you about the name caller's response after the name calling. "They are white supremacist, while relying on white-passing "latinos" as a less-than-honest defensive tactic"

the idea that they are relying on white-passing "latinos" is incredibly racist to me. I may agree with you regarding the diversity of the membership. I do know the diversity of the guy currently in charge of them and if his pic was on the page-I think a lot of the white supremacist stuff would stop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:46:C801:B1F0:F5BB:3B86:E159:625A (talk) 03:50, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't know about white-passing but the national leader of the Proud Boys is a Latino from Florida. I know because he's come to protests in Portland and it's covered by the press. He's been interviewed by the local media. That's a fact. Wikipedia isn't in the business of imputing motivations on to individuals. Liz Read! Talk! 04:13, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Deletion review for Cryptopia

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Cryptopia. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Ҥ (talk) 10:54, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know. Liz Read! Talk! 22:00, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Gabbie Carter

I wrote the article Gabbie Carter.
I do not know how to deal with the draft. I could not request its deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, because it is a draft, not an article. I also did not find a criterion for a speedy deletion.
My concern is that the complete article would be overwritten by this draft.
Thank you, Dgw (talk) 20:26, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Dgw,
I deleted the draft as a duplicate of the article. This isn't a speedy deletion criteria but it's a reason for deletion I've seen other admins use. I don't think there is any way an admin would move over this draft and replace your article with it but it's better to be safe than have an accident. I hope this answers your concerns. Liz Read! Talk! 21:59, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi, thank you a lot for your assistance.
I would like to have your advice. I have not written articles about the adult industry. Usually I write about History and about people with disability.
Carter is a phenomenon. Every worker in the industry said it, from her agent, who worked 22 years with different models and did not see a model like her, to actors (including an actress), a director and magazines. In Hustler, she was on the cover page. I discussed it in the talk page of the article, after the line "prompt and steady achievements" was removed from the article's template with its source. There is no reply. I would be glad for your look. I consider this line as neutral, because it is backed well with sources. Thank you for your reading. Dgw (talk) 23:50, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi, Dgw,
I am not an article writer and I'm especially not an article writer for pornographic performers who I don't think belong in an encyclopedia, frankly.
Regarding puffery, check out WP:PEACOCK, I know superlatives are discouraged and frequently removed. And I'd ask for advice at WikiProject Pornography, they will probably have article standards and be more experienced with this subject, which, honestly I have zero knowledge of except for creating and maintaining categories for sex workers and exotic dancers. I'm happy to help with technical and policy requests but this is not a subject I know much about. Sorry. Liz Read! Talk! 02:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

G13 deletions

Hi Liz, I saw somewhere you made a comment about doing batch deletions. Are you doing batch deletions of G13 content? If so, does this include articles that were not manually tagged as G13 but are identified as having no edits in the last six months in some other way? Batch deletions of G13 content are concerning to me because there is a significant amount of content that is unfairly declined. I think having some degree of human review in the deletion process is important. Also, there is a bot that reports on things nominated for G13 deletion, but im not sure it will pick up deletions if that tag was never applied. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:58, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Calliopejen1,
Well, "Yes" and "No". I have done two or three batch deletions of G13 stale drafts that were tagged and appeared in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as abandoned drafts or AfC submissions. I did do one batch deletion of G13 stale drafts appearing on page User:SDZeroBot/G13 eligible sorting but that was a big mistake that will not be repeated (and there were FAR fewer drafts listed on that day than the many appear on that page today). I would never do a G13 batch deletion again except if there was a large group of tagged stale drafts appearing in the CSD deletion category where I'm assuming the editors tagging them have reviewed the drafts. I would never do a batch deletion again except to clear a CSD category that has more than a dozen tagged pages.
Over the past week, I've done a lot of G13 stale draft deletions but, except for my big mistake, all had a notice sent to the talk page of the page creator informing them of the deletion and the procedure for restoring their draft. To be honest, I've actually been surprised at how many are completely blank pages or have one sentence. I thought those empty drafts would have gotten tagged over the previous six months but maybe they do not come to anyone's attention until they are eligble for G13 status.
Regarding G13s, the custom of tagging and deleting them has changed over the past couple of weeks. Previously, once a day, Wikipedia:Database reports/Stale drafts was posted listing hundreds of G13 eligible drafts and one or a few editors would tag them over time and admins would delete them. Now, editors are tagging them before the database report is issued and that report is frequently blank and empty because of this change of habit.
Since I switched to dealing with G13s this week, I have noticed that the standard 5 month notices alerting the draft creator of the six month period approaching have not appeared on editor talk pages. I brought this up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation#G13 5 month notices and hopefully the new bot can start posting these notices again. I think it's important for page creators to be aware that their draft might be approaching G13 status, they are more likely to edit it and we will have fewer deletions and restorations.
I hope this has allayed your concerns. Since I started working with G13s this week, I have noticed that you, DGG and a few other editors are rescuing old drafts before they get to that G13 eligible status. Considering that we have thousands of drafts in the 5-6 month age range, this seems like an enormous task. Liz Read! Talk! 19:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
That doesn't really alleviate my concerns... In the discussion about extending G13 to non-AFC drafts (including drafts that have never been submitted for AFC review for publication), there was more than one comment to the effect that "An admin is required to apply thought before deleting a speedy candidate". See Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion/Archive 65. Batch deletion completely removes any judgment about whether the G13 nominated draft is crap to delete or whether it should instead be moved to mainspace (or submitted for review). I don't think that a G13 nom shows that judgment has been applied because I don't think the people currently nominating articles en masse are actually applying any judgment. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:31, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, if that is the case, then this issue involves more than my behavior but also those of editors who frequently tag G13s and of admins who patrol CSD categories who delete them. I've only been regularly checking these G13 drafts and G13 categories for the past week and I just did my first batch delete a few days ago. There are other admins who have been dealing with them on a more long-term basis before I was involved.
You should also talk to some of the admins who batch delete hundreds of tagged files that I believe should be inspected. I stay away from deleting any files because of the confusion surrounding their process of deletion but I've seen admins mass delete them nearly every day. I can change my behavior about G13s and inspect them more carefully but maybe the issue regarding batch delete as well as CSD tagging should be raised to a larger audience at the Village Pump. Liz Read! Talk! 20:59, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Calliopejen1, for example, look at this afternoon's deletion log and you'll see that Fastily just did a batch deletion of G13 stale drafts that were tagged by Celestina007, an editor who tags many G13s . If you believe G13 stale draft deletions are a problem, then it is a problem with the use of batch delete by admins and G13 tagging by editors, not just the case of my mistaken batch deletion from the past week. I made a mistake but if there is a problem, then it is one that is bigger than just me. Liz Read! Talk! 21:58, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Draft talk:Waxwork Records

Did you mean to delete Draft talk:Waxwork Records as G8? The corresponding subject page exists. Jackmcbarn (talk) 06:32, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that, Jack. I've restored the draft talk page. Liz Read! Talk! 21:38, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

How do I open a Sockpuppet investigation ?

Sorry. I'm extremely confused on how this ISP works. I mean I read a lot but I still don't understand. How and where do I open a sockpuppet investigation ? Vamlos (talk) 02:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

You go to WP:SPI, to the section "How to open an investigation", hit "Show" on the upper right corner, and put the name of the sock master's username in the empty field. Hit "Submit" and then a new case page will open up where you can write your report. That page will contain a lot of information about what you are supposed to do, what information they need and where you can put your evidence.
Just be aware that for privacy reasons, Checkusers can not verify that a user account and an IP account are connected. This is one of their absolute rules. Liz Read! Talk! 02:56, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Vamlos, I don't know why you didn't follow my very simple instructions. And this point, I give up. Liz Read! Talk! 03:10, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Okay. I think I know what to do but did I do the right here aswell or should I remove it ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations . Sorry I didn't read your instructions because I was waiting for 5 minutes and gotten no response. I will be patient and wait longer next time. Thanks for helping me.Vamlos (talk) 03:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion

From Liz: “A tag has been placed on Category:Lithuanian escapees requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia.”

Reply: I'm sorry; this page was created in error. (No need for details!). Please delete it. Thanks! Arrivisto (talk) 08:15, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for letting me know, Arrivisto. Liz Read! Talk! 17:49, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

deleted page Draft:Khaled Mohamed Ebrahimi (G11: Unambiguous advertising or promotion)

Hi Liz,

I saw that you deleted my draft article due to (G11: Unambiguous advertising or promotion). This is my first article and I agree that I'm not good writer and I want to improve. Can you reconsider and reinstate the article to draft space? This is my first article and I want to fixed it. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marvz0015 (talkcontribs) 11:31, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Marvz0015,
I've restored your draft and moved it to User:Marvz0015/Sandbox where you can work on it. It will need a lot of work because it is very promotional and reads like an advertisement.
For writing advice, please go to the Teahouse or Articles for Creation and they can help you. I work on maintenance tasks on Wikipedia and not content creation and I'd go to the experts. Liz Read! Talk! 17:46, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

CSD tag removal


I added a CSD tag to the draft Febrian Chandra. In your edit summary, you declined the CSD saying that foreign language drafts are allowed. [3]. I'm not sure if you saw that in fact my reason for deletion was actually G11, but I used custom rational instead to explain why I nominated it, and that I used Google Translate to translate it. The language was not the reason for nomination, but instead that it was promotional, albeit in Indonesian).

Not sure if you saw this part of my edit summary or not, but just wanted to double check. Thanks! Giraffer munch 16:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Giraffer,
The way I interpreted your CSD message was that the draft should be deleted because it was in a foreign language and that would not be grounds for a speedy deletion for a draft. I couldn't judge whether it was promotional and I'm not sure how reliable Google Translate is for the nuances of an article.
In this case, I think if you feel strongly in your opinion, you can retag the article. Another admin might view it differently. My judgment though is to leave the draft and judge it when the content when it gets translated. Liz Read! Talk! 17:37, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply. I think'll wait and see. Giraffer munch 17:43, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.Isabelle 🔔 17:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the note. It was taken care of. Liz Read! Talk! 23:03, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Category:November 1974 sports events in the United States

Hi, just to let you know that I have removed the speedy deletion notice from Category:November 1974 sports events in the United States which you added when it was empty. I have found an article which clearly belongs in it so it is not empty anymore. My understanding is that this means it is not eligible for speedy deletion anymore, but if I have got this wrong please just let me know. Dunarc (talk) 22:51, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Dunarc,
You were right. It was right to find an appropriate page to put in an empty category. This will end a CSD C1 deletion. And you can remove a CSD notice if it is not appropriate any longer from any page as long as you are not the page creator.
But you don't have to worry about an empty category being deleted by mistake. Empty categories sit for 7 days before deletion and I know I, and probably others, check every day and remove categories that are no longer empty. This long waiting period is prevent categories that were emptied out-of-process from being deleted but it also enables editors to find appropriate pages to put in empty categories.
You might also like to know that categories deleted simply for being empty can be recreated if they are needed in the future. If a category has been deleted by a CFD deletion discussion, this is not the case. So, even if an empty category were mistakenly deleted, it can be recreated by any editor, no problem. And this is probably more than you wanted to know about empty categories! Liz Read! Talk! 23:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for that on my user page!

Thanks for that, I really needed that advice on my user page! Stay Safe and have a good week! Toad62 (talk) 00:06, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
No problem, Toad62. Getting into disputes with other editors is not a good way to start your Wikipedia editing career. There are over 6 million articles, find one on the subject you are interested in, see if you can improve it, using reliable sources and talk to other editors on the article talk page. Good luck! Liz Read! Talk! 00:13, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2012 Benghazi attack

Hi Liz. Wondering if you'd mind taking a look at WP:AN#Talk:2012 Benghazi attack. Perhaps there's a way to stop things from spiralling out control any further (see WP:THQ#Talk page comments on Talk:2012 Benghazi attack and WP:AE#USERNAME for an example of what I mean) and stop someone from ending up getting blocked. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:05, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

I'll take a quick look, Marchjuly, but, to be honest, I've stayed pretty clear of noticeboards since my 2015 RfA where my frequent participation at AN/ANI was a major source of criticism of me and I barely passed. I got the message so I try not to be involved in the drama boards except a random opinion offered now and then. There are plenty of other places where I can make a contribution. Liz Read! Talk! 05:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
I didn't see any conflict on Talk:2012 Benghazi attack but that is because User:NorthBySouthBaranof archived or reverted all of the comments. I don't think that this is an effective way of resolving disputes but I'm unwilling tonight to thrash this out. I'll add the page to my Watchlist to keep an eye on it. Liz Read! Talk! 05:24, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm unclear what else to do - it's not a "dispute" that those threads were in violation of multiple guidelines and policies for talk pages. Short of requesting the editor be blocked for those violations, my goal was to stop the edit war and take the material out of circulation. We can't just leave a thread titled "Hillary Clinton Lied to the American People" sitting around on a talk page. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 05:35, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
@Liz: Completely understand. Just saw you were online and figured I see if you could help out.-- Marchjuly (talk) 05:43, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
@NorthBySouthBaranof: I wasn't implying you did anything wrong. That talk page had become a WP:BATTLEGROUND and the other editor had started to slip into WP:RGW and WP:USTHEM territory. Perhaps a firm line needed to be taken, particularly due to BLP concerns. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:43, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Yes, it was my mistake to end up giving you a ping, NBSB, right after I said I wasn't going to get into the details tonight. It looks like the editor has made an ill-formed request at A/R/E which will get rejected for being incomplete and so I posted a message on his talk page. I'm skeptical whether it will have any effect but I try to approach editors without being seen as an opponent. It's not typically successful but I try any way. We'll see what tomorrow brings. Good night. Liz Read! Talk! 05:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


Hi Liz

Great to see you back. I hope that your computer woes are behind you.

A typo by me in Template:Crimesyr let to several "YYYY in law" categories being depopulated, and deleted as empty. I have foxed my error[4], and now the following categories need to be re-created:

Please can you re-create them?

Sorry that my folly has added to your workload. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks for doing that, and esp for doing it so promptly. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:50, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
  Done, any time, do not hesitate to ask.
Well, I learned there is actually more editing than I thought possible even when one is editing with one finger on a phone. So, I found I could do some admin activities but talk page comments and content edits were limited. Things are moving more quickly and efficiently now that I'm back to a keyboard. My previous laptop was a 2012 model and I'm slowly getting used to a new kind of large, fancy touchpad that has different functionality. I'll eventually get the hang of things. Liz Read! Talk! 16:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
I know that feeling! I did a big upgrade two years ago, and there was a lot of adjustment. But it was all worthwhile. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)


Can user:2a00:23c6:3425:af00:5ce2:44f8:ead9:27cd please be blocked ASAP. CLCStudent (talk) 18:02, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 18:04, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Can user: please be blocked ASAP. CLCStudent (talk) 20:32, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 20:35, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Not me

I did not create Draft:Ajeet Jaiswal and have no memory of being a significant contributor. David notMD (talk) 01:28, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, David notMD,
Well, that's odd. There are only 2 edits to this page, both by you. Your first edit summary says "moved the draft content to draft space, and some copyediting (less capitalization of words)" and the second one said you were doing more copy editing. And there were a few paragraphs of content there. But if you moved the page from main space or user space, there would be note of that move and there isn't.
By the way, Jaiswal is Ajeet Jaiswal (born 2 May 1979 at Varanasi, Uttar Pradesh, India) is an Assistant Professor of Bio-Physical Anthropology...is this ringing a bell?
If you are curious, I can restore it and do a test edit so that it delays G13 deletion another 6 month. Just let me know. That's the great thing about G13 deletions, the pages can be restored upon request very easily. Liz Read! Talk! 01:38, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Let it stay deleted. Really, not mine. David notMD (talk) 01:40, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


user:RadicalzFan4L is attempting to abuse her talkpage if you look at filter logs. CLCStudent (talk) 14:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done. Wow, you seem everywhere at once, CLC. Liz Read! Talk! 14:42, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


Is it time for me to start fixing broken redirects and adding "R from ..." templates to redirects? Or is it still not a good time? Gioguch (talk) 19:58, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Gioguch,
Thanks for getting back to me. Sometimes I miss pings alerting me to a discussion.
The reason why I posted that notice on your talk page was it seemed like you were just inventing redirects that were unlikely to be search terms for editors looking for a subject like adding extra blank spaces to words and phrases. It's fine for you to "fix" broken redirects like redirects to blank pages.
But what I'd like you to do, if you want to continue to work in this area, is before you create any new redirects, read Wikipedia:Redirect thoroughly, know the guidelines & policies for Redirects on Wikipedia.
Next, look over the discussions on Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion...see what the arguments are for saving, changing or deleting questionable redirects that get nominated for discussion. Try to understand why some redirects are useful while others are not helpful at all or just bad ideas.
Don't look at redirects as a way to create a lot of new pages as an editor but become an expert in them and participate in RFD discussions yourself once you understand what the standards are for a good redirect. Then you'll be making a really valuable contribution to the project. Good luck. Liz Read! Talk! 20:12, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Kenny Lorenzo

So about the weird Kenny Lorenzo page, what happened is I tried writing a bio for my friend Kenny Lorenzo to test my editing skills, but I somehow changed the page to User:KennyLorenzo, not really sure how, but yeah I was trying to use some kind of sandbox thing and I don't know what I did, but you probably won't find any reference for this guy, he's really not famous, Hell I don't think anyone still remembers him apart from me and my cousin. Is there a way to keep the page on a private sandbox thing where I can view and edit it, but it's not public? Anyhow really sorry for the mess I created, and I take full responsibility for my actions if this has consequences.

~~Omir Laa~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omir Laa (talkcontribs) 21:10, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker), @Omir Laa, the sandbox isn’t a space where articles on non notable persons are indefinitely collected. You mentioned that the individual isn’t notable so what then would be the purpose of arbitrarily editing a non notable article in your sandbox? I’m not Liz by the way. Celestina007 (talk) 21:18, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Omir Laa,
This isn't a standard solution to your problem but I will move your article to your user sandbox where you can work on it. The page will be deleted if after 6 months if you aren't continuing to improve it. Because he didn't publish his photographs, I agree that it will be hard to find some sources to support the contention that Lorenzo was a notable photographer. But I encourage you to keep at it! Good luck.
Celestina007, Omir Laa asked on my talk page because I posted a PROD on an article he wrote. I think it's fine for him to work on improving the bio since he is working on his editing skills. Liz Read! Talk! 21:31, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, and I'm sorry if I caused a mess.

~~Omir Laa~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omir Laa (talkcontribs) 21:37, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Please restore Antigua and Barbuda missing coordinates

Liz, please reconsider the removal of category Antigua and Barbuda articles missing geocoordinate data]]. It is a “Possibly empty category”. At Category:Articles missing geocoordinate data by country note that every country has such as list and that a few (such as Andorra and Liechtenstein) are empty. Some US States, such as Delaware, are empty on a regular basis - but they always get a few more articles missing coordinates and we all (especially me) need a place to find them. Partially my fault - I corrected the last article and did not add the Empty Category tag. I will be sure to add it to the restored category! Thank You. GeorgeofOrange (talk) 00:21, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, GeorgeofOrange,
Are you talking about Category:Antigua and Barbuda articles missing geocoordinate data? I've restored it and added an Empty Category tag. I hope that addresses your concerns. Liz Read! Talk! 14:39, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! GeorgeofOrange (talk) 00:43, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

RevDel review request

Hi! As you are willing to do revdels - could you take a look at these two? I reverted the most recent as a personal attack because it makes an accusation against the subject which is not supported by the refs; I am not sure if it is of sufficient severity to warrant a revdel but I'd appreciate an expert's opinion. If you do revdel; I guess my own edit summary explaining why I reverted should come out too. - Thanks! Dorsetonian (talk) 14:31, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Dorsetonian,
Looking at these diffs, they could be seen as unflattering but they don't meet my understanding of the Criteria for Revision Deletion as being obscene, libelous or "grossly insulting". I'm also reluctant to take action because this looks like an ongoing content dispute that needs to be resolved on the article talk page first.
Personally, it looks like a 16 year old comment he made that I would argue that it doesn't add much to the article. But that's my opinion as an editor, not an admin. You, Hogyncymru and other interested editors need to discuss this content addition on Talk:James_May. Liz Read! Talk! 14:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks - yes, I wasn't sure if it came close enough; thanks for reviewing! Dorsetonian (talk) 15:05, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Black Widow (2020 film)

Hello, I think the redirect at Black Widow (2020 film) should not have been deleted. I imagine many links have been made here and elsewhere that still point to that title, so I think it would make sense to keep it per WP:RKEEP and WP:EXTERNALROT. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 15:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Brainulator9,
I think one can make an argument for deletion or restoring but I decided to restore upon your request. If you feel strongly, I would add the page to your Watchlist because it might be retagged in the future. My own view is reflected in Wikipedia:Redirects are cheap.
You could go directly to the editor who tagged it to discuss the issue or just wait and see if it gets tagged again. I know that this movie has been moved around to a number of different titles over the summer. Liz Read! Talk! 00:14, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. I'll try to keep an eye on things. I think I might point to Sonic the Hedgehog (2019 film) and its discussion as precedent for this sort of thing, even with the different circumstances behind the delays of both. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 01:20, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Deforestation in Turkey, deleting category

Somewhat confused about why I was notified about this. Did I create the category? I rarely do this but it’s always while trying to categorize a specific article. Apparently, if so, the article itself has been deleted or recategorized. The topic sounds important enough for its own category, but I have no memory of creating it, and I guess if it’s empty it should be deleted (?) it can always be re-created if needed, right? My only concern is that we have trouble getting articles on Turkish topics, and I wonder what happened to the original article. (Wikipedia was blocked there and may still be.) Bottom line, if I was notified because I created it, and it’s now empty, I guess it should be deleted. Elinruby (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Elinruby,
According to the edit history of the page, you created this category on August 18th. It's an empty category CSD tagging which means that the category will sit for 7 days. If any page gets placed in the category over this week, then the tag will be removed. If the category is still empty in a week, the category will be deleted. Should someone want to create an empty category at some point in the future, they are free to do so.
So, you can either find an article that is suitable to be placed in Category:Deforestation in Turkey or do nothing and it will be deleted next Monday, it's up to you! Liz Read! Talk! 00:20, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

@Liz: ok, thanks for explaining that to me. I am deep in something else right now but I will probably look into it quickly, next. If the category can re-created at some point for some suitable article, that assuages my primary concern. Elinruby (talk) 08:48, 13 October 2020 (UTC)


Please block (talk · contribs), persistent vandalism and inappropriate edit summaries on Corona. Maybe some revdels would be necessary. Thanks ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 23:27, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Nkon21,
Looks like Nick Moyes beat me to it. I was busy with some activity and didn't check my talk page quickly enough. Consider it taken care of, thanks to Nick. Liz Read! Talk! 00:22, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for even-handedness

Thank you for your even-handed warning about edit warring on Anthony Bourdain. No snark, serious! LK (talk) 04:52, 13 October 2020 (UTC)


either I am feeling particularly tolerant this evening, or you're feeling the opposite.... wonder why--maybe we should take an average somehow,. DGG ( talk ) 10:55, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

DGG, you just see the article potential in drafts and what they could turn into! Liz Read! Talk! 14:04, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Disruptive editor

Hi, could you do me a favor and have a look at my report here? I seem to be getting no responses or willingness to act from admins, despite having pretty clear examples of disruptive behavior from this editor. As an addendum to that report, the IP has now started a new kind of vandalism: date changing. They're already doing this except with sourced quotes; changing words so they don't match the source, the latest example of that here. Eik Corell (talk) 14:02, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Empty albums categories

No need to notify me of these, thanks. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:03, 14 October 2020 (UTC).

Rich, do you want to skip notifications for all empty categories? I've been asked by other editors who create a lot of categories to skip notifications to them and it's easy to do if that's what you'd prefer. Let me know. Liz Read! Talk! 14:06, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
It's really only the albums categories. I created a lot of these, many years ago, some of them have had their albums (often only one album) recategorized as "non-notable" since, and are hence turning up empty. I don't have the time to investigate if the AfD/Prods that precede the cats becoming empty are well-founded, although I suspect that sometimes they aren't.
Most other cats I created are likely to relate to content I have curated, so I am more likely to make time to investigate.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough 20:54, 20 October 2020 (UTC).
Okay, will do, Rich. I didn't use to do all of the CSD C1 category tagging but I seem to be the only one now a days and it'll be easy to skip notifications for album categories. Liz Read! Talk! 21:00, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 23:21, 21 October 2020 (UTC).

Can user: please be blocked ASAP. CLCStudent (talk) 13:57, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 14:02, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

A favor please?

Hey Liz, hoping I can ask a favor: when you have a chance, can you delete my user subpage User:UnitedStatesian/CSD log/2020Q3? With all my CsD-ing the page got so big that any attempt to open it times out, so I can't put db-user onto it, and rather than bothering an entire noticeboard, I thought I'd ask a friendly admin. I have all the content split out into three other subpages, one for each month, so it's redundant. Thanks as always, UnitedStatesian (talk) 22:21, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done Wow, that took a long time to open! It was 1,068,784 bytes. I have had that happen with my CSD log, too. I need to cut my current one down as I'm doing more CSD C1 taggings these days...you must be busy with other tasks. Happy to do these kinds of requests! Liz Read! Talk! 22:28, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks so much! Yes, I've moved into doing a lot in the draftspace: AfCs, G13s, etc. UnitedStatesian (talk) 14:08, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, that's great, UnitedStatesian, we can't have too many editors working in AfC, there is usually quite a backlog there. Liz Read! Talk! 14:12, 15 October 2020 (UTC)


Can user:2601:603:5200:590:6167:2bb9:9e84:7901 please be blocked ASAP. CLCStudent (talk) 22:43, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done This was on a pretty obscure page that I doubt was on your Watchlist. How do you catch all of these vandals? Liz Read! Talk! 22:45, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
I watch the Recent Changes page. CLCStudent (talk) 23:45, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Ah, well, that would be hard to keep up with! It's like a ticker tape. Liz Read! Talk! 23:49, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Can user: please be blocked ASAP. CLCStudent (talk) 23:45, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 23:47, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


Might I suggest you not tag FloridaArmy’s drafts for g13 while they are temporarily blocked? It’s insensitive and adds fuel to an unnecessary fire. Praxidicae (talk) 00:21, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 00:22, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Praxidicae and Drmies, I go down the list of stale drafts in Category:AfC G13 eligible soon submissions, check them for eligibility, tag them and delete them. I just check to make sure that the page is eligible for deletion and I don't ordinarily notice who created the draft so I think your accusation of insensitivity is not appropriate. I check hundreds of drafts a day and the only way I know who authored these pages is by looking at my own contributions to see where Twinkle posted a notice.
It's awkward to skip drafts when they are listed in order of 6 month period expiration. But I will honor your request. However, I'm not the only editor/admin who regularly tags & deletes these stale drafts. I think if it's not me, it will be another editor/admin who tags & deletes them. I can almost guarantee it. But since you asked, it won't be me for the length of his block. Liz Read! Talk! 00:50, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
please reconsider tagging g13 in that case. I find it to be one of the more worthless but detrimental deletions on this project and it takes no time to check the draft history itself to see whether it’s an active editor. But tagging g13 on a temp blocked editor who contributes to meaningful content in an area we are lacking is...insensitive and does not benefit anyone. Please I delete those drafts at the very least and maybe be more conservative with the tag in the future. Praxidicae (talk) 00:57, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Checking who wrote the draft isn't a big hardship, right? Drmies (talk) 01:14, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Praxidicae, of course, it is not a hardship but there is no way for any editor or admin to keep track of which editors are blocked and which aren't. There is no master list of blocked editors that all admins can scan every morning before they edit. Well, there used to be such a list but it was wisely deleted long ago.
You seem to be thinking that how I handle G13s is different from that of other admins and editors. Look at User:SDZeroBot/G13 soon, next Friday, 233 drafts become eligible for G13 status (and there are 323 drafts becoming eligible tomorrow). So, yes, it does "take time" to look at each one and, honestly, I don't think all our editors tagging them for deletion look at them very closely. When I started working in this area a couple of weeks ago, we had over 5,000 drafts coming to their expiration date. Now, there are 1,873. We had a large, large backlog from activity in March and early April. A great number of these drafts were blank, had only a title and maybe one sentence. They were not promising.
If you are interested in how G13 stale drafts used to be handle, until recently, at 8 am UTC every morning, a list of stale drafts was posted at Wikipedia:Database reports/Stale drafts, and a number of rather enthusiastic editors would tag them all for deletion and they'd be deleted, en masse, by one of our admins who patrol CSD categories. I seriously doubt that our primary deleting admins examined hundreds of tagged drafts individually, they probably assumed the drafts had already been evaluated when tagged (and I don't think that has ever been true). See this page for an example of an old G13 database report and how the information used to be presented, for years, until mid-September.
Since September though, SDZeroBot has been able to provide much more detailed reports, evaluating the quality of drafts (from "promising" to "blank & unsourced"} and even sorting them according to subject area. It's been a big improvement over just having one list of links. And what is occurring now is that stale drafts are deleted throughout the day rather than all deleted at once between 9 am and 11 am UTC.
I have asked editors at AfC to look at expiring drafts and pull out ones they think are promising. They are the pros at this. So far, despite there being HUNDREDS of editors working with AfC, only DGG has done so on a consistent basis. And he's been rescuing old drafts for as long as I've been editing. I wish more editors at AfC would look at soon-to-be-expiring drafts but I can only encourage them to do so, they set their own priorities.
I would welcome your participation at looking at the hundreds of drafts reaching their expiration date every day and if you could spend time evaluating them and rescuing promising ones, that would be a great help! If you don't like how we treat G13s or you would prefer to have a longer dormant period than six months, Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) is thataway. I think this argument has been made several times over the years. It would also be beneficial to involve more editors and admins than just myself in this conversation. There is also a recent discussion at WT:CSD Notifications for G13 that you might want to look over.
If you want the viewpoint of someone more experienced than I in the subject, I recommend Primefac who knows more about the history here and I hope he won't mind me pinging him. He has offered some welcome comments on G13s when they've come up in recent discussions.
Again, if you want to get involved here, or Drmies, too, that would be awesome. Like I said, 323 stale drafts become eligible on October 17th UTC and we could use your help tomorrow and every day on this work. Liz Read! Talk! 03:18, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
As for florida Army's drafts. I try to rescue as many of his as are worth rescuing. In the past they would submit minimal or sub-minimally referenced drafts, and never fix them, not even when challenged at AfD. Even though many of his topics were of interest to me, and the subjects potentially notable , I finally in frustration told him I would stop working on them unless he made more of an effort. Since then, he has been gradually making more of an effort, sometimes at first submission, and at least after they've been declined. I think he has cometno understand the problem, and I now will approve anything that is more than minimally sourced and that I think has a reasonable chance of showing notability. Even if minimally sourced, if I think there's a chance, I will comment on the draft to keep it from G13. (at least, I do this in the fields I understand, like early cinema; I cannot properly judge in fields I know nothing about.) I've justrealized he has been blocked, for an unrelated problem --a perfectly good block, btw, and not one where I would want to suggest unblocking .

As Liz says, we have ben making improvements in screening, many of them due to her interesti n the problem and her excellent work. Unfortunately, there many that no one person can do it--by now we have I think 3 or 4, and that still is not enough. My own practice to to look at he ones coming up at Category:AfC G13 eligible soon submissions and try to keep at least a few days ahead , with thegoal of getting as far ahead as possible. I work by hovering over each title in turn, and I think I can be counted on to catch the ones who are academics or businesspeople or politicians , and to a lesser degree, conventional visual artists or classical musicians , or companies, and historical figures . If I can immediately fix, I do, and accept (especially the ones that have neve een been reviewed at all) But I skip totally over everyone in sports or in popular music, or in journalism, unless by chance I recognize the name. I will usually skip over people in other geographies where I can not even judge the likely notability without research, particularly if the sources are in languages I cannot read at all. (I always look at apparent translations from French or German) And of course I skip over the ones written in nonEnglish languages, or personal junk. I would e very grateful if I could be assurred thatsomeone was keeping an eye on the categories I cannot handle.

I'm not quiteas sanguin as Liza about the effectiveness of the subject screening, and especially of the quality screening, which I think often too generous. But this complements what I do, and I'm very reassured she looks from those perspectives.

I have one particular request=--many drafts have been declined as needing merges. Sometimes they have been merged, sometimes not, sometimes it's unnecessary. At the moment I'm almost always just marking them: my priority is to have enough time to actually check and merge at tleast the simpler ones. I'm working on a list of the ones I think need it, so others can more easily help. And one matter I do not want to be specific about: if you've done much of this ,you'll have noticed a few reviewers whose work cannot be trusted. I do not want otmention maes, but you can compare notes offline. At least one of them, though tending to decline everythign 6 months ago, has now become more selective in their current work. The worst of these have some time ago been removed from the list, but if there are others, I can and will do so. But I want to try to teach them first. DGG ( talk ) 07:57, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

  • This isn't a reply to DGG, just a new thought/thread to keep things a little separate since I was pinged to give my thoughts. On the one hand, I agree with Liz that checking for the creator of a draft before deleting via G13 is not exactly standard practice; if anything, seeing a blocked user would mean less to me than an unblocked user. Additionally, I cannot see a REFUND being denied to an editor who was temporarily blocked and unable to "save" their draft(s) from G13 deletion.
On the other hand, checking the providence of nominated drafts for a week because it was asked nicely (and the currently-blocked editor has a history of being ridiculous when "slighted") isn't totally unreasonable. I don't know if I can think of an upper limit to that time frame, though (i.e. a week is fine, a month is probably too long to keep track of).
So I guess the above is a hand-wavey way of saying that both the request and the reply are reasonable, but if Liz doesn't feel the need to perform the extra task as requested I don't think it reflects poorly on her. Primefac (talk) 12:44, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback, Primefac & DGG. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions. I realized this morning that I need to step back from G13 tagging. It was just consuming so much of my time, many hours a day, which might be why I was a bit defensive. I felt like I was making a big contribution to the project and so the critique I've received over the past two weeks stung a bit. But it has influenced me positively, and I've adjusted how I work.
I think there are some valid concerns here with how we treat G13s that is worth initiating a discussion. I just think that this conversation is worth extending to the group of editors who regularly do CSD tagging as well as the admins who patrol these categories. There are admins who have been working in this area of the project for many more years than I have and it's worth including them in the discussion. I just am not sure on the best way to involve admins who spend their time deleting files and not on the discussion of practice on policy talk pages. Liz Read! Talk! 00:03, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Second eyes

Hi Liz, would you mind taking a look at 2020 California Proposition 16? I've been trying to mediate a content dispute there, but feel too involved to take action. A recently unblocked editor came back and restarted an edit war. I reverted and warned them. They participated on the talk page briefly, but now they're leaving misleading edit summaries. For example, claiming to format a table but looking at the edit, they don't introduce any table formatting, moved their preferred section above the other (like in the last edit), and edited a completely different section than the one implied; also they described an edit as a minor formatting change but actually removed sourced information. Seems obvious to me, but I don't want to look like I'm taking sides. Could you (or a talk page watcher) review and take necessary action? Wug·a·po·des 00:26, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Wug·,
I'm in the midst of something right now but I'll check out the article and talk page later tonight. Liz Read! Talk! 00:31, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, no rush. Wug·a·po·des 00:32, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
It looks like this editor has been a major contributor to this article. I think some of their additions were fine, they aren't a vandal. Their edit summary was misleading though. I'll keep an eye on it for any potential edit-warring. Liz Read! Talk! 01:17, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Draft Haris Stamboulidis

I worked on the draft for Haris Stamboulidis professional soccer player. It was rejected because he hasn't played his first live game. He will be playing his first live game in soccer this season in two weeks. I need to get my original draft ready for republishing. Can you please find my draft. I saved it in this space.

Kind Regards Aphrodite Akarnikos (talk) 11:58, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Akarnikos,
I've restored it at Draft:Haris Stampoulidis. You should be able to work on it. Liz Read! Talk! 16:07, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi I'm trying to publish this article. Haris Stamboulidis is listed in this page as well https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charalampos_Stamboulidis

What do I need to get it published Akarnikos (talk) 12:04, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Can you help me Akarnikos (talk) 12:05, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Just be patient. As soon as he plays in a fully professional game, modify the article to include a reference attesting to this fact and re-submit it. It will likely be accepted at that time, but not until then. Also, if there are any other players who have played a fully-professional game (that is, they meet WP:NFOOTY, but do not have a page on the English Wikipedia, please create them. If those individuals have pages in the Spanish Wikipedia, and you read Spanish well enough to translate, please read WP:Translation and translate them so those of us who don't read Spanish can benefit. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 16:32, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

user: is abusing her talkpage. CLCStudent (talk) 16:47, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done It was pretty petty stuff but it's just a 31 hour block so I didn't feel bad extending it to her talk page. Liz Read! Talk! 16:50, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Category:Lists of mathematics articles

Hi Liz. Have you got notifcations turned off, by any chance? Because you have nominated this category for deletion three times now, and each time I have replied to you but you have ignored. Please can you respond to these replies on my talk page? Thanks! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:25, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Please block user: ASAP. CLCStudent (talk) 03:27, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

  Done, but I don't really think this case was urgent. Just standard, dumb, vandalism. Liz Read! Talk! 03:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Review of Draft:Shannon Global Energy Solutions

Hello Liz, I'm still learning about writing articles on Wikipedia. Last July Nathan2055, moved an article I was drafting about Shannon Global Energy Solutions, and on Aug. 5, 2020, you deleted it. I realize why you deleted it; in hindsight, and with a critique from Jimfbleak, I see why the piece wasn't up to par or particularly encyclopedic. Jimfbleak restored the draft and suggested several edits, which I appreciate and have thanked him for. I've revised the entry and improved it. I'm certainly open to further input, but Jimfbleak suggested I now ask for a reviewer to look over Draft:Shannon Global Energy Solutions. Was I correct to add a COI statement to the talk page for this draft article and submit it for review? I want to follow the appropriate process. Thank you very much. Lakewood66 (talk) 17:24, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Lakewood66,
Looking at Draft:Shannon Global Energy Solutions, it looks like Jim deleted in August, not me. If you are talking about another page, can you provide me with the exact name or link so I can see why it was deleted?
Since you have submitted the draft for review, the folks at AfC will be evaluating it and making suggestions. As for the COI disclosure, I think it's always best to be honest. Hiding paid editing can result in your work getting deleted. If the article gets approved, I'm not sure that the disclosure is necessary but the AFC reviewer could tell you that. Liz Read! Talk! 17:38, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi Liz, I think disclosure of paid editing is not only necessary but mandated by the Wikimedia terms of use Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:01, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
I see now on paid editing guidelines that this disclosure must be made on article talk pages as well as on the user pages which is where I have typically seen disclosures posted. Liz Read! Talk! 18:28, 21 October 2020 (UTC)


Hello Liz! I'm Luke3227, nice to meet you! Luke3227 (talk) 18:15, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Luke3227,
Not sure how you found your way to my user talk page but welcome! I hope you enjoy editing on Wikipedia. If you have questions about editing, I know the Teahouse helped me out a lot when I was starting out. Liz Read! Talk! 18:21, 21 October 2020 (UTC)


Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

--Kallichore (talk) 20:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Your thoughts

Liz, I infer you're disagreeing with my choice to file AE complaints, but you also haven't commented on the content of my cases, just the formatting, so I don't know what your thoughts are there. My understanding is that if an editor is violating DS, we are to report them if discussions do not help. If they are warned and repeat the same behavior, we file another AE complaint. I would prefer to just edit article content without putting my neck on the chopping block, but it seems unfeasible to edit under these conditions. Kolya Butternut (talk) 22:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Kolya Butternut,
I realized that my comment wasn't addressing the substance of your argument but merely the filing of it so I removed it. It didn't aid in resolving the complaint and wasn't helpful. Luckily, I realized this just a few moments after posting it so I believe it was alright to remove it. Liz Read! Talk! 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
I understand that, but that sounds like a non sequitor. Should I infer that you do not want to discuss your thoughts on how and when to use the AE process? Kolya Butternut (talk) 23:17, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Although one procedure I had considered was asking admins/AE to revert SPECIFICO's edit and place sanctions on the article, which would avoid sanctions against editors. However, that request puts me at risk of being accused of trying to win a content battle (but asking for an editor sanction puts me at risk of being accused of harassment). So my choices appear to be to walk away from the article voluntarily or complain and get banned from the article through ANI. I don't see how an RfC over an entire rewrite is going to work, unless the RfC is over which version to start building off of...but I'm not sure if that's a content issue or a noticeboard issue if it gets into litigating which version is the stable version. I thought thought I made the practical decision. Kolya Butternut (talk) 23:33, 21 October 2020
My thoughts are that filing frequent cases on the same editor usually isn't looked on kindly by admins commenting in AE and it can backfire. Unless it is egregious, admins don't want to respond to every little infringement of the discretionary sanctions but look for patterns of behavior where they can clearly see that a problem exists and what the proper sanction should be. My experience is that many admins are frustrated with complaints with ambiguous or borderline behavior infractions and can see it as a waste of their time to have to look at and weigh evidence they see as weak.
I'm not taking sides in your dispute but successful complaints don't come out of personal animosity towards another editor which is clear to anyone reading a case. They have evidence that indicates a clear cut pattern of violations and there are other editors who thoughtfully support your claims and offer statements. Unsuccessful cases are ones where the two sides can each point to misconduct of the other person, that just looks like a personal dispute and it is likely that in those cases both sides might receive sanctions.
But it ultimately comes down to how strong evidence is. Look at the meticulous case that Gorilla Warfare posted. Even though it is a well put-together complaint, coming from a respected editor/admin/arbitrator, some admins commenting just don't find it persuasively objectionable enough to warrant a sanction. You can have the formatting down right but if your evidence isn't strong enough to justify opening a case at AE, it's not worth spending the considerable time to put together a complaint. It's better to wait until you have stronger evidence or, better yet, find a way to resolve your dispute outside of a noticeboard. Just my 2 cents. Regarding your last specific request, I'd ask one of the more admins who frequent AE, this is not an area of admin activity I'm a regular at. Liz Read! Talk! 23:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
I understand how my cases look, but I don't agree that the evidence is unclear if it is examined, or that there is misbehavior on my part. I think that by not taking sides you are taking sides. That sounds harsh, but I can't blame you or others for not feeling safe here; it's a structural problem. Kolya Butternut (talk) 00:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Toad62 (talk) 15:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I know this may be a stupid question, but...

I noticed on your profile, there is a picture of you, and the caption says, "At WikiConUSA May 2014". What is Wiki con, and what do you do there? If you don't reply to this, that's understandable because, in my opinion, this is a kinda dumb question. Toad62 (talk) 17:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Toad62,
It's not a stupid question! WikiConUSA was the first North American Wikipedia Conference, held in NYC in May 2014. It later was decided to hold it as an annual event. Last year, it was held at MIT in Boston, MA in November 2019 and this year, it's going virtual. The plan was to hold it in Canada in November 2020 but due to the coronavirus, those plans have been put off a year.
I've gone to ones in 2014 and 2019. Typically, they last three days and there are about 400-500 people attending so it is smaller and more intimate than WikiMania. There are different subject tracks of panels but some folks come and edit almost the entire time, there's a room set aside just for editing. Others spend the time, not attending panels or editing, but networking and collaborating with other editors. It's really fun to personally meet editors you've only known by username. Most people do a mix of those three activities, editing, panels and networking. It's really up to you how you want to spend your time. There's almost always some planned activity in the community so last year, we got to several museums in Boston.
There's some information at WikiMedia's WikiConference NA page but the best source of information is at the WikiConference website. Volunteering, before or during a WikiConference, is a great way to get to know other editors and learn about event planning...volunteers, especially if you live in the conference city, are always needed and appreciated. Liz Read! Talk! 18:14, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for telling me about it! I’ve never gone to any convention so I was very, very confused when I heard about this “wikicon”. It sounds kinda fun! Thanks for answering my question, stay safe! Toad62 (talk) 21:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
Oh, I find conferences to be a lot of fun, especially if you have an interesting educational program that is well put together. I think one special element about WikiConferences and WikiManias are activities and parties scheduled after the day's program. At the last WikiMania, we had a closing party in an actual four story museum that we had all to ourselves where you could eat & dance or you could wander through the exhibition areas and be a museum nerd that ran until midnight! That's an experience you could never have outside of that conference. Travel costs can be expensive but WikiMedia has a good scholarship program set up and should you get the opportunity, I encourage you to go. Liz Read! Talk! 23:25, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

thank you


thank you for your kind words. i appreciate your interjection.

it is upsetting to see a habitual edit-warring individual continue their conduct without any punishment.

what is especially bothersome is the fact they did not even read the sources and just involved themselves.

at what point do individuals who are "regulars" on WP:ANI or WP:DR sanctioned for their conduct?

it certainly seems this user is in line for a slap on the hands? just spitballin' here. (talk) 22:47, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

It's easy to get passionate when editing, especially on subjects you care about. I saw your edits because the article was on my Watchlist, I didn't look into the nature of the dispute you were involved in on the article talk page.
"Regulars" can be sanctioned for misconduct, if you look at ANI, you'll see that Davey2010 received a block for edit-warring and personal attacks and he is not only a long-time editor, but often comments on the noticeboards. I'd suggest you look at my advice in a post above from yesterday. In presenting a complaint, it's the strength of your evidence that counts and the situation isn't helped if it is just a dispute over content or coming out of personal animosity. Edit warring is usually more clear cut than other misconduct and it should be reported at WP:ANEW. Liz Read! Talk! 23:07, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Deleted article Cantarito

Hi Liz. Can you explain why you deleted the Cantarito article, please? I was out with my wife drinking one, wanted to know what the ingredients were, and found that you'd deleted the article. Now I have no idea what I drank! If the Sazerac and the Negroni can have their own pages, why not the Cantarito?

Jalfrock (talk) 22:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Jalfrock,
Well, we have a policy of deleting pages created by sockpuppets and you can see here the editor was a sockpuppet. Apparently this is a case of long-term abuse because the account was globally locked which is only done for serious sockpuppetry. They contributed quite a few cocktail articles but most of them were very short and so are reproduceable.
This article was only three sentences long so I'll quote the relevant part here for you and your wife:
A cantarito is a tequila-based highball, paloma-like cocktail served in a clay cup known as a jarrito that helps keep the drink cold. It can contain ingredients such as agave, lemon juice, lime juice, grapefruit juice, orange juice, sea salt, and grapefruit soda (or lemonade or limeade).
That's it. I hope this answers both of your questions. If you run into other questions about deleted cocktail articles, just circle back here and I'll see if I can answer them. Liz Read! Talk! 23:19, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

CS1 categories

Hey there, Liz! :)

You have set up for SD 2 of the categories I created some days ago. Those categories are needed for the CS1 module to work properly in EnWiki. I don't usually work in EnWiki. I'm an admin at SqWiki/SqQuote and I'm 90% of the time only active at those sites, mainly helping in technical aspects, mostly related to references and citations, so I might not know the exact needed category creation guidelines or templates to use here but I can assure you those categories are needed for the technical aspect of the said module. At least the one related to JFM is 100% needed, according to my current technical knowledge of that module. You can check here for more information.

However, if I'm wrong, feel free to delete them. I was just trying to "give something back", since 90% of my "contributions" on EnWiki are questions or requests for help related to SqWiki problems.

Take care! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Klein Muçi,
I'm not sure what SqWiki/SqQuote is but thank you for your work. I'll mark these categories as "Empty categories", that is, categories that are empty at times. English Wikipedia doesn't normally allow for empty categories to exist unless they fall into a few, well-defined groups. I'm not familiar with CS1 but I'll take your word for it that these two categories serve a useful purpose and will be utilized. I'll untag them. Liz Read! Talk! 16:23, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for the jargon. SqWiki = Albanian Wikipedia, SqQuote = Albanian WikiQuote (EnWiki = English Wikipedia). With CS1 module, I mean this one. Its categories are located here. It's not unusual that its categories are empty at times because they are maintenance categories. What's unusual though is the lacking of description of those categories I've created (compared to other CS1 existing ones). Unfortunately I can't help with that part as I'm not quite familiar with the technical aspect myself. Hopefully some more-than-me tech savvy user will come and put their needed descriptions (and by doing so will also help me in return to know what to write in the Albanian homologue categories). - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:33, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for the explanation, Klein Muçi. I only know enough technical aspects of Wikipedia to get my daily routine of tasks done. I wish I understood scripts better because I have added a lot and I'm not sure if they are all that useful. I'd like to know more about modules and bots but right now, that is beyond my ability. Thanks for coming over from Albanian Wikipedia to help out here. Liz Read! Talk! 16:45, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
I would offer to help in that sector but I think you can find users at EnWiki a lot more informed than me. At the Albanian communities I'm one of the few who looks after the said sector but most of my knowledge there comes just by asking for help here so... :P Thanks for the kind words! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Yazmin Aziz back to draft

Hello there, an article on musician Yazmin Aziz got a speedy delete and I think I might be able to rewrite in a way that does a more effective job of establishing notability for the subject per WP:NMUSIC. When I went to make the draft the template suggested I contact you.[5] I haven't done a rewrite-from-deleted before so I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to be asking you. But here I am, asking. :) Thanks for your direction. TheMusicExperimental (talk) 02:22, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I can't figure out what is going on here, TheMusicExperimental. You've written an article on an article talk page and on the article page there is a tag for speedy deletion. Can you give me a link to the page that was deleted so I can see why it was deleted? If you've created a new article on top of a deleted article page, it's difficult to recover the original page. Liz Read! Talk! 02:30, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Original article is most definitely not mine. It was made by sbsalam. Near as I can tell, they made an article and published it, it got hit with a speedy deletion (which, based on the way it was written, I can understand). Somewhere in there the content was put on the Talk page and the talking ended up on the Article page and so on. What I'm trying to do is make a draft version of Yazmin Aziz so I can rework from the citations available and was just going to copy the content into a draft and start working on it. The original Article, I think, is here: [[6]], the actual content I want to paste over and rewrite is here: [[7]], and the draft I'd like to paste it into is here: [[8]]. The original author might be even more inexperienced than I am so I figured if I tried to wade through this part it would be easier to see what can be done to established notability on this subject. Thanks for your insight and time. TheMusicExperimental (talk) 02:38, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
So, what was the page that I deleted that you had questions about? That's what I'm puzzled about. I need to look at the deleted page to see why it was deleted. In some cases (G13s & PRODS), it's easy to restore a deleted article but if it was deleted due to an AfD, BLP or copyright issues, it should not be restored. Liz Read! Talk! 02:44, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
I think the one you deleted was the draft, it says G8? [9]TheMusicExperimental (talk) 02:46, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Def don't want the original restored, just looking for a clean path to rewrite in a draft mode.TheMusicExperimental (talk) 02:47, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Ah, this explains it. Draft:Yazmin Aziz was moved to Yazmin Aziz, then it was deleted, and I deleted the redirect from Draft:Yazmin Aziz to Yazmin Aziz. I delete a lot of broken redirects. Admin Jimfbleak deleted Yazmin Aziz on grounds of G11 or Unambiguous advertising or promotion. Within hours, Sbsalam, who created the original article, started recreating it. And so it's been tagged for deletion again.
Since it seems like Sbsalam is invested in this draft article, if you want to create a new one, I'd start a new draft on a differently-titled page. Liz Read! Talk! 02:56, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Ahhh that makes sense. I'll work on a separate version and see how it goes. I just didn't want to create a problem with page moving etc. Thanks for taking a look! TheMusicExperimental (talk) 03:12, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
TheMusicExperimental, I'm not a content editor but I would recommend you look over the current draft and see if there are any reference you can use, to write a less promotional article. Sometimes the sources are decent, it's the text that is weak. Good luck! Liz Read! Talk! 03:15, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Liz that's exactly what drew me to it. Noticed the editor's question via helpdesk and saw that the article was very promotional leaning but there are two mainstream press features, a national chart placement, and a national TV broadcast which might get it to Stub or Start via WP:NMUSIC. TheMusicExperimental (talk) 03:22, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping, I've whacked the repost, warned the editor again, and also warned a new account that removed the SD tag for doing that and possible socking Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:49, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

New on Wiki but disliked by people who wants to delete info On bolivia

I noticed there is a notice of me on the admin noticeboard and I am aware who created it. I don't feel like this is going to be a fair fight considering bolivia is a politically charged topic and the people accusing me and trying to out me, just wants me to be silent as my edits stop them from vandalizing the bolivia page wrongfully.

On the bolivia page, there is one editor who has been edit-warring and deleting info using biased reasoning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crmoorhead . The info that he deletes are solid and well backed by sources. So naturally, I undelete what he did and remind him that the info is well backed by sources.

He then undo my work in which I reply to him to please take it to the talk page. I ask him to take it to the talk page as I am certain that he knows that I am right but he doesn't take it to the talk page. Reason that he doesn't take it to the talk page is that he knows I'm right and he can't bs me. So instead, he makes a new section with arbitrary external reasons on the admin noticeboard with the intent to remove me instead. And ironically accuses me of edit-warring despite I had considered reporting him but I have no idea where to start.

I am not good with apologies but I will admit that maybe I was overly harsh on Materialscientist after he deleted all my edits but it was just a misunderstanding. He had assumed I was a vandal and undid all my work. And I accused him of being excessive in his actions and I should have handled it better. But after that one conflict, an external user Crmoorhead has had a grudge against me and hates me because I refuse to let him delete real info from Bolivia's page. He should be the one blocked for doing so and Wikipedia needs people like me to ensure people don't delete info they hate. This is my contribution history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/

Don't know where to start but you seem like you know the ropes. Can you help or point me to the right direction - I would like to request an investigation in the both of us -(me and Crmoorhead) and freely invite impartial people to determine who is the REAL VANDAL and who is the one opposing the vandalism. I am the latter hence I welcome such a review as I believe THAT is the real conflict between me and Crmoorhead. (talk) 06:54, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Manual reversion

Technical question for you: is this considered routine removal of unwanted comments, or are these comments considered part of the unblock request, especially since they were cited by the reviewing admin? I'm not particularly concerned about seeing my comment restored, but I am curious if that input is covered by the exception to WP:OWNTALK involving declined block requests. Grandpallama (talk) 06:42, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

AFAIK, only the declined unblock request itself counts. Even proceeding comments from the admin who declined the request don't count. If they were relevant to the unblock request then the admin should have mentioned them when declining the request. An admin reviewing any subsequent request will therefore know to check out the history if they feel it matters to their review. The only time I can imagine comments other than the declined request being unremovable is when they are follows ups because the admin forgot to mention something or whatever but is unwilling to modify that request. Even in that case, it would IMO be better if the admin simply annotates the request. Nil Einne (talk) 07:46, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
P.S. I guess there may be some concerns about how easy it will be for a subsequent admin to realise there are other comments when some of them were deleted but others weren't but the declining admin quiet reasonably simply mentioned comments below or something similar. I think answer to that would still be that the admin should preemptively check if they really feels it matters to them. Having the declined request there as a baseline so reviewing admins know how many previous ones there were, and what was said as a quick check, is sufficiently important to override the principle that editors can delete comments on their own talk page if they really want to. But if the reviewing admin feels they need more info they may need to check. (This includes for AN//I discussions etc too.) Definitely whenever I've been in discussions surrounding deletion of comments in OWNTALK cases any exceptions have been treated very narrowly. Even the declined exception can be controversial especially if it's been a while and the editor has retired/decided to leave and not appeal for now. I assume most admins do a quick check of the history anyway since the exception could easily be violated, so frankly most editors deleting comments simply harm their case. Still if it's what they want to do excluding those exceptions, it's better to let them rather than fight it. Nil Einne (talk) 08:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC)-
AFAIK, only the declined unblock request itself counts. Even proceeding comments from the admin who declined the request don't count. This is what I had always assumed, Nil Einne, but since Liz initially reverted their deletion, I thought perhaps that meant any discussion pertaining to a declined unblock also fell into the same category. Like I said, I am not looking to have those comments included, nor am I griefing Liz for restoring them, but it isn't spelled out at WP:OWNTALK and it made me genuinely curious about how admins view it. Grandpallama (talk) 15:30, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Grandpallama, I didn't have a policy-based reason for my content reversal. I was trying to make a point, but I don't think it was pointy.
Unless you work in a small, niche area, at some point every editor on Wikipedia runs into other editors who take issue with their edits and, if polite, they ask for explanations. If not so polite, you get angry editors posting on your talk page. If an editor is going to be editing here for any length of time without being brought to ANI, you have to find a way to respond to criticism other than "F-u!". While Telsho had the right to remove your comment from their talk page, I was trying to make the point that they would have a better chance of being unblocked if they didn't just delete every remark that was critical of them. Their chance of being unblocked would be enhanced by responding to criticism with an explanation or counter-argument. But there is only so much you can convey in an edit summary.
So, my action wasn't in my capacity as an admin enforcing a rule or policy but more as an advisory comment. I apologize if that wasn't clear to you or Telsho. Liz Read! Talk! 18:15, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
No apology sought or needed; like I said, I'm not poking around to complain about policy violations one way or the other, but I was just curious if the exception policy was broader than I had thought. I don't think you did anything problematic by restoring the comments, nor did he by removing them (although I agree with you that a history of blanking criticism doesn't help with unblocking). Thank you for clarifying your thinking, though; I appreciate it. Grandpallama (talk) 18:29, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Draft: Michael Colby, updated and ready for repost

Hi Liz,

Thanks for all the work you do to make wikipedia a resource that can grow and change with the community (all of us).

I recently posted a new draft of this wiki page for Michael Colby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Michael_Colby, and it would be great if you could post the article now that the sources have been updated and problematic content edited out.

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki Lit Editor (talkcontribs) 20:05, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Wiki Lit Editor,
Thanks for the compliment but I have no association with your draft, your work or any "problematic content".
I advise you to submit it to Articles for Creation for review. It looks good to me but I'm not a content expert. You could try moving it directly into the main space of the project but this is something you can do yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 21:07, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

International Motor Film Awards

Hi, I have just seen that you have deleted this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Motor_Film_Awards). It was originally removed in February for not having enough suitable references, so the new page was built with a lot more references and irrelevant ones thinned down. Instead of just removing it, can you feedback on how it could be improved? Thank you! Joshmayer84 (talk) 01:55, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Joshmayer84,
If you look at the deleted page, International Motor Film Awards, you can see the reason for the deletion was that it was seen as the recreation of an article that had been deleted through a deletion discussion (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/International Motor Film Awards for the discussion). The deletion discussion will give you some idea of the problems the editors saw in the original version of the article that was deleted.
If you would like, I could move your version of the page to your user sandbox so that you could continue to improve upon it. But if you then move it directly into the main space of Wikipedia, it will be deleted again. You'll have to submit it to Articles for Creation and get a reviewer's approval to make sure it is an improvement over the deleted version. Liz Read! Talk! 02:05, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi Liz! Yeah I saw the deletion discussion page with the reasons, but this was back in February. While the page may appear similar/a duplicate to the initially deleted one, it has been greatly improved, with legitimate sources such as newspapers added. I'm still new to Wikipedia so still learning sorry. Thank you... I will try to improve it more and submit it to Articles for Creation for approval. Joshmayer84 (talk) 02:26, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello Liz, please can you move that page to my sandbox to continue working on it? Thank you! Joshmayer84 (talk) 21:00, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Joshmayer84,
I have moved the article to User:Joshmayer84/Sandbox. Do NOT move it back to main article space without revisions or it will be deleted and, in this case, not restored again. Good luck! Liz Read! Talk! 21:30, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Your reversion of my edit at WP:ANI

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Hi Liz

You reverted this edit of mine [10]

The content I removed at WP:ANI was posted by DePiep into the middle of my content. In a previous edit at WP:ANI, DePiep objected to my postings inside his content, and reverted them, along with a request to cease and desist, which I subsequently respected.

By inserting his post into my content at WP:ANI, DePeip breached a standard of conduct he expected of me. I therefore removed his content, along with a comment: "remove interference by DePiep in my post" [11], which I trust you saw.

I posted a warning to DePiep about this at WP:ANI, here [12].

I intend to revert your revert.

WP:ANI is stressful. When you revert me without doing due diligence, that adds to my stress. In future, as an Amin especially, I ask you to take the time to do due diligence, especially at WP:ANI, before reverting.

I've attempted to stay stay cool; not be a jerk or a drama mama; and assume good faith. --- Sandbh (talk) 06:06, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Sandbh,
Do not remove or edit other editors' talk page or noticeboard comments unless a) they are personal attacks, b) they violate WP:BLP or c) they are copyright violations. "Interference" is not a justifiable reason to remove another editor's comment. Liz Read! Talk! 17:43, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Thank you Liz, for your prompt response. Pardon me, it looks like a "cookie-cutter" reply, that does not take account of the background to my question, as I set out above.

Does this mean that another editor can post comments inside my posts?

As I noted above:

"By inserting his post into my content at WP:ANI, DePeip breached a standard of conduct he expected of me. I therefore removed his content, along with a comment: "remove interference by DePiep in my post" [13], which I trust you saw."

If if is indeed that case that it's OK for an editor to post inside another editor's post at WP:ANI, I'll add this to the draft of the WP:ANI protocol I intend to develop.

best regards, Sandbh (talk) 00:16, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Draft:List of known cases of COVID-19 in the United States

This was coming up for G13 but I found it potentially valuable and edited it 21 October. Nevertheless, you deleted it 28 October (I then got a WP:REFUND). My understanding is that my edit should have reset the G13 clock and given this another 6 months. Do I misunderstand? ~Kvng (talk) 12:26, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Kvng,
No, you didn't misunderstand. You did everything correctly. I made a mistake. Dealing with G13 eligible drafts has become a bit more complicated recently.
There are several locations that G13 eligible/eligible soon drafts are listed: Category:AfC G13 eligible soon submissions, User:SDZeroBot/G13 soon and Wikipedia:Database reports/Stale drafts. In the past, we have relied on the G13 eligible soon category but as you can see in this discussion, there are problems with this category right now. It is supposed to include all drafts becoming eligible in 5-6 months and in the past it contained between 2,000-5,000 aging drafts. Now, it has about only 450 drafts. So, for some reason, aging drafts are not being placed in this category.
So, I have relied more on pages put together by SDZeroBot which lists around 200-300 G13 drafts each day. But using this list means that I need to double-check the edit history of each draft to ensure it is eligible. I've noticed that between you and DGG, you remove about 20 stale drafts from upcoming G13 drafts each day and I have caught almost all of them but apparently I didn't notice that your recent edit to Draft:List of known cases of COVID-19 in the United States which would disqualify it from being eligible. As far as I know, this is the only one I have missed.
I apologize for the inconvenience of you needing to request its undeletion from REFUND. If you find I've made an error like this in the future, please come to me, I'll look into it and restore it if I've made a mistake. I'm very careful with drafts but these days I'm looking at between 200-300 G13 eligible drafts each day and there is a possibility that I'll make a mistake. Honestly, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be dealing with G13s because without a reliable Category:AfC G13 eligible soon submissions, it has turned into quite a lot of work. I hope we can find out why the G13 category system isn't working as well as it has in the past. Liz Read! Talk! 17:39, 29 October 2020 (UTC)


Hi Liz. Just a quick question about this edit. I did prod the soundtrack album's cover art for deletion and since it was deleted I get removing the file's syntax and caption from the infobox. However, I'm not sure why you removed the entire infobox itself. Not complaining about its removal; just curious as to why. For reference, you did the same at The Elephant Man (film) and The Five Heartbeats. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:34, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

I removed the infobox because the image was the bulk of the infobox. But I'll replace them, without the image, and you can work on them. Liz Read! Talk! 01:37, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying. I was just curious as to whether there had been some recent RfC or something about using infoboxes without images. I'm OK if the removal is a case of WP:DISINFOBOX and that seems to be the case with these articles. To be honest, I didn't really think about whether an infobox was needed when I prodded the files for deletion. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:44, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
No, no RfC, no big policy change. Just an editing choice, it turns out, probably the wrong one on my part. Liz Read! Talk! 01:47, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Deleted Mann + Hummel article

I noticed you deleted the Mann + Hummel article that I had started for being unambiguously promotional. I have included the links to articles in other languages that you may want to delete as they have been written along the same lines. I started the article because they had been linked in another article so I thought I would help get the article started but apparently I was wrong. Please let me know how the article was promotional and was unable to replaced with neutral language as I am sure you know this, that is preferable to deletion.

Mrtrey99 (talk) 22:13, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Mrtrey99,
Do you have a link to the deleted article page? I delete a lot of pages every day. Then I can look over the content.
Administrators have no power on other language Wikipedias so I'm just a regular editor on those Wikipedias. Liz Read! Talk! 23:44, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, that helps. What I see is a brief paragraph and then a couple listings of the company that are just mentions. There is no coverage over the company by reliable sources, no articles about the company or its founders in mainstream or business journals or newspapers. If you think you can find some significant coverage, more than just mentions, I will put the content on one of your user pages and you can work on improving it. But if you move the page back into the encyclopedia, it will be deleted again. It's been deleted twice not for the same reason. Liz Read! Talk! 03:19, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

To be honest I would rather not contribute anything to a project that makes it so easy for things to be deleted. It is far less work to delete things than to make things better, so I will just not contribute. Good luck deleting information. Mrtrey99 (talk) 19:33, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that way, Mrtrey99, but perhaps another platform like a blog would be more appropriate for this content.
I don't know if it is "easy" for things to be deleted, there has to be a justification for deletion, some of which you can find at Criteria for Speedy Deletion. We don't delete pages willy nilly. We do when they don't meet our standards of content. Liz Read! Talk! 23:12, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

I would say that once something is marked for speedy deletion it is very easy to delete, you in fact mentioned that you use a batch delete and accidentally deleted some articles. You could spend time improving articles but apparently deleting information is what you are into. I have some books that aren't very notable if you like to burn them.

Mrtrey99, I don't use batch-delete after trying it out and finding problems with it. And, in your total 7 edits over the last 3 weeks, 6 of them have been to my talk page so you can't say you are spending your time improving articles, you are just posting about your annoyance with me. I said that I would restore the article to your sandbox but you didn't want that so I'm not sure what your objective is here.
Any future comments here that are just maligning me and not constructive or about editing the project will be removed. Liz Read! Talk! 20:02, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

I typically only add content when there is a gap in the information on Wikipedia. You are not the first deletionist that I have encountered and been discouraged by. I started contributing to Wikipedia in 2004 when stubs were encouraged and welcome. No more, the deletionists make sure no new articles go unturned. One day Wikipedia will reach its perfection and be a single article.

Thanks for the cleanup

Here and the related ones. I didn't realize there were extant redirects from the old name. StarM 00:08, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Star Mississippi,
I'm not sure what pages you are referring to but I do delete a fair number of broken redirects. Glad it helped! Liz Read! Talk! 00:24, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
Twelve years in.. I still can't make wiki links consistently. LOL. This is why I should stay in simpler lanes StarM 02:29, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion removed

How is a user page that says "I's back bitches" appropriate? Not angry, just wondering.The one and only 4thfile4thrank {talk} 02:47, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

You may not like the language used but that is not an attack page against anyone. It doesn't fit the criteria for an attack page according to CSD. Liz Read! Talk! 02:49, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Seven years!

treats on my talk today, - thank you for pumpkins! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:21, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda. Happy Halloween! And it's a blue moon tonight too...the last blue moon on Halloween was on Oct. 31, 1944. Liz Read! Talk! 13:20, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2020

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2020).

  Guideline and policy news

  Technical news



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:52, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Romanie Schotte

Hi Liz, I see you've just deleted Romanie Schotte, which was apparently prodded as BLP1E. My understanding was that winners of national-level beauty pageants were taken to be notable, but this particular individual made national news in her country not only for winning the pageant but also for being sued for some sort of racial discrimination (making 2 events). Would it be possible to restore it? --Andreas Philopater (talk) 14:53, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Andreas Philopater,
PRODs are for uncontroversial or uncontested article deletion. So, since you are contesting this, I have restored this page and it can not be PROD'd again. If an editor thinks the page should be deleted, they will have have to use Articles for Deletion.
I should mention that several Miss Belgium beauty queens were tagged with PRODs and deleted today. You might check my deletion log and see if there are any others you wish to see restored. Liz Read! Talk! 15:05, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know (Schotte was the only one on my watchlist). I'll have to check whether (and how) notability guidelines for beauty pageant winners have changed. --Andreas Philopater (talk) 15:11, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Andreas Philopater,
For PRODs (or G13 stale drafts), you don't really need to justify article restoration, like you would have to do in an AfD discussion. They are restored upon request as long as it's a good faith request. There is the hope that you could address the PROD rationale for deletion but it's not a requirement. Liz Read! Talk! 15:19, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. I don't want to go about disputing a bunch of prods on a false understanding of what consensus about beauty queens actually is, though. --Andreas Philopater (talk) 15:23, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
The "Miss Belgium" pageant winners deleted seem to be Stephanie Geldhof, Annelies Törös and Noémie Happart. The last (Happart) was in the national news in 2017 and again this year (after winning the title in 2013), so I think the "BLP1E" claim fails there, and please could you restore the article. I'll wait to see what the consensus about national title winners actually is for the other two (the prodder was acting on the assumption that 18 articles about regional winners being deleted in a single group AfD gave a basis to prod national winners). --Andreas Philopater (talk) 19:09, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Given how busy your page has been the past couple of days, I can well understand that you missed this request, but could you please restore the page Noémie Happart, deleted after expired prod? --Andreas Philopater (talk) 20:28, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
  Done Sorry, Andreas Philopater, when I see I have a new talk page message, I go directly to the bottom of the page and I missed your earlier message. Liz Read! Talk! 20:35, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
I quite understand! --Andreas Philopater (talk) 23:26, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 November 2020

Go away! But first here's this!

For someone who doesn't want anyone watching or commenting on their talk, they sure do keep adding more and more shit that would make someone want to watchlist it and comment on it. [14] [15] [16] [17] I don't know if this person came here in good faith or as some sort of plan to infiltrate the deep state on Wikipedia.[18] They're actually a good and thoughtful writer. [19] But clearly they think they're waging some sort of lost-cause war against liberal bias here. They seem to be using their talk as a webhost, at this point. —valereee (talk) 12:42, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) NF is a good editor who deals with a lot of vandalism and who's gotten a lot of heat lately both on- and off-wiki on the Sushant Singh Rajput cause of death issue from hordes of SSR fans. I don't know if the bitterness NF's expressing on their talk page recently is a new development or the way they've felt all along, but their edits are good and compliant and they do a lot of work to improve Wikipedia. Maybe just give them some space and the benefit of the doubt? Schazjmd (talk) 15:51, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm wondering if this is a stress reaction. I think to begin with it's difficult for conservatives on WP, which I think can cause a siege mentality even in normal times. That plus the whole mess the world is in right now and of course the US election tomorrow...I'm willing to overlook it for now, as long as it doesn't get worse in the near future and eventually gets better. I can't speak for others, but I'm sort of just crossing my fingers. —valereee (talk) 17:11, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
I appreciate your comments but I don't really want to talk about other editors unless they are problematic. I don't agree with Ned that there is discrimination on Wikipedia but he is entitled to his opinion as long as he is not being disruptive. And I think asking other editors to take his talk page off their Watchlist is not being disruptive. Liz Read! Talk! 23:08, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
My apologies. I'm feeling a bit stressed, too. :) —valereee (talk) 23:58, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
You inspired me to cull a couple days ago, under the blue hunter's moon at Cullen's. So I arbitrarily mowed down four once-cherished tales of mine without even blinking. I mean, they weren't great articles, but they used to seem OK, probably still were. But hey, I'm down to a slim, trim 500c to distract me while Biden makes political heat boring again. Thanks, Valbama! I don't mean that sarcastically, either, this is just the way I talk. As America's greatest figurehead Homer Simpson once opined, "I have serious mental problems!" And you helped me appreciate the value of cullin'! Why dwell in the past when we could stare into the light at the end of this crazy rainbow-flavoured tunnel of dystopian tension that was this bullshit spring, summer and fall? To wintry slumber, the universal dream, the great equalizer, the real relation, the underlying theme. Long story short, I consent to you two drawing conclusions from this partially "conservative" or kookily "conversative" editor's documented descent into madness and apologize if anything I've said or am saying could be taken as a veiled personal attack, protest song or white supremacist echo. Donald Trump has never been my president. I don't have a president. I have a queen. I have a degree in journalism. I swore an oath to uphold certain standards of integrity and decency in reporting. I have a love for Southern' wrasslin' shenanigans and black champions in and out of the squared circle. Sometimes I come off as "the other side", but trust me, I've seen things, there is no other side in the greatest battle humanity has ever eternally and collectively feared losing. The Babylonians, Scorpions and Kansas were right all along. When the dust settles, we settle our differences. When the winds of change blow straight again, all we are is agitated dust. Relax, and keep on cutting the thousands of topics you used to find worth staying in touch with out of your daily bread, Valbama. Yes, you can! (And yes, I can stop calling you that or leaving rambling messages on your co-workers' desks, just remember how liberating a mass cull can feel, Cull, cull, cull..) InedibleHulk (talk) 07:57, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
For cripe's sake, if you are going to allude to my username several times, shouldn't you ping me at least once, InedibleHulk? Like I just did? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:28, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
It worked just as fast. Sorry though, you're right. How've you been? InedibleHulk (talk) 08:38, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Cullen328, that is. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:44, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
InedibleHulk, I almost used cullin' in that message to Cullen but decided it was a little too on the nose. That's quite the...um...I'm not sure what to call that, but it reminds me of an old boyfriend. Is that you, Kevin? :D —valereee (talk) 12:50, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Valereee, I almost used paragraph spacin' on the chunk above, but figured it would take away from the whole "meltdown" vibe. Anyway, don't worry, I'm not Kevin. Haven't even known a Kevin since around '95. And I'm not stalking you, either, I just notice you at a lot of Talk I skim lately. Those three E's are attractive, but in a platonic way, like Liz's big bold hyperlink which drew me here like a harmless royalist moth. You write well, too, and have more good ideas than bad. I think the climate has just had us on edge and concentrating on our differences at polarizing topics lately, good riddance to the last four years! Trump had to happen for the continent to hit rock bottom, as did the rioting, pandemic and ism-related reckoning. Like you with K-Dog, I presume, I did have some fun under T-Rex, but as the great Vince McMahon once asked that white devil Jake Roberts, what do you do with a really good book when you've read it? So yeah, put your past away and decimate your watchlist! I meant to write 5c earlier, not 500c, not sure how anyone can chill with a thousand of any number. I'm narrowing mine to a Top 25 before the next moon, and insist on paying that mere suggestion back to you, that's all. Look away to look ahead, and always listen to Blue Oyster Cult's Secret Treaties when you're unsure of what to do! Peace. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:22, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Peace to you, too, InedibleHulk. I appreciate your kind words, and your contributions, even when we disagree. Maybe especially when. :) I agree that Trump probably had to happen, but as a survey developer, survey methodologist, and research analyst, I question the polls and am not at all sure it's over yet. :) At this point I'm just crossing my fingers for no violence, and I'm not at all confident about that, either. Best to you, my colleague. —valereee (talk) 23:36, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
I think this is the first time my talk page has become a watering hole. Discussion tends to be pretty utilitarian here. But you're all welcome to chat! Liz Read! Talk! 23:52, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
On the bright side, it did serve a purpose. I just pressed a big red button and culled every person, place and thing I ever cared about here. At least I think they're gone forever, the system warned me it might take a while. Hadn't realized there was an easy button. So many memories, bam, done! Some were deleted redlinks that only existed in that watchlist, some were windows into real people's minds, some were almost 15 years old. But now they're all the same, lost together in that vast shadowy mirror world of deleted online stuff. I FEEL AWESOME! Thanks for everything, good watering holefolk. If anyone wants to help repopulate the newer, better watchlist, just drop me a line sometime, maybe recommend a favourite album. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


I have removed the block message - but I was only using it to experiment with wikitext, I wasn't using it for blocked users. I will try not to put notices like that on my sandbox anymore. --Ituafmq (talk) 15:35, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay, Ituafmq, that sounds like a good move. It was just a curious thing for a editor who's only been active for one day to do. I'd stick to improving articles for now. Liz Read! Talk! 16:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for the advice. I will find ways to improve articles. --Ituafmq (talk) 16:29, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

My Mistake

Hello Liz, So sorry about the mixup. I was trying to create Igbo category for Igbo Language articles, I did that on the wrong page.Oby Ezeilo (talk) 18:58, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

No problem. They are just empty categories, tagged for deletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:04, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


Hello, Liz. You have new messages at WesternAtlanticCentral's talk page.
Message added 20:53, 2 November 2020 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

WesternAtlanticCentral (talk) 20:53, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Deletion request

Hey here, thanks for deleting my talk archive by my request. Could you please delete my talk page User talk:Eurofan88 as well, requested it for deletion 2 hours ago, nothing important there just i'd like to clean up the history. Thank you. Eurofan88 (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Eurofan88,
We don't delete user talk pages except in extraordinary conditions. You can blank the page or I can. Liz Read! Talk! 18:50, 3 November 2020 (UTC)


Is the teahouse the right place to share riddles/jokes with others? --Oscar012723487 (talk) 20:45, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Oscar012723487,
There is no place on Wikipedia that is an appropriate place for sharing jokes. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a social network. The Teahouse is a place for new editors to ask questions about editing articles. Discussions here involve how to improve articles or debating Wikipedia policy, not for general conversation. There are many other platforms, like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or blogs, for sharing jokes or just casual conversation. Liz Read! Talk! 20:52, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
What does it mean when someone reverts my edits? Does it mean that I did something unconstructive? Because DexDor reverted my edits on WP:Subpages and I wasn't able to find a reason in the page history. --Oscar012723487 (talk) 21:16, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Oscar012723487,
Ideally, an editor should leave a brief explanation for an edit in the edit summary which appears in the page history. I think "unconstructive" is a good word for why some edits are reverted. I also think that brand new editors like yourself are scrutinized more than experienced editors because you might not know all of Wikipedia's policies and practices. That's understandable. You can always go to the talk page of an editor who reverted you and ask them why. Hopefully, they will be courteous and provide you with an explanation.
Also, I know it can be jarring when you have an edit reverted but even editors who have been editing Wikipedia for decades sometimes have their edits reverted if there is a dispute over the content that has been added to an article or deleted from it. Try not to take it personally. All of us are, at times, reverted. It means that you start a discussion over why. Liz Read! Talk! 21:27, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Renamed user page deletion

Deletion log Liz talk contribs deleted page User:Staszek Lem

Please also delete all redirects which are subpages, per request in User:Staszek Lem/init‎‎. Lembit Staan (talk) 17:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Especially https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Staszek_Lem/EditCounterOptIn.js&redirect=no ;I cannot place "db" tag on it because it is read-only for me now. Lembit Staan (talk) 17:28, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Okay, Lembit Staan, I think I got them all. Thanks for tagging them. Liz Read! Talk! 17:31, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


Hi Liz. I created this category Category:December 2020 peer reviews to store peer reviews from December. This is part of 160 other similarly named categories. It even says so on the category page. I don't understand how mere hours after creation you have placed a speedy review tag on it, just as you have been doing for other peer review categories, some that are still in use as maintenance categories.

How did you even identify that category? I have been wiki stalked before and it's not a comfortable experience.

I would request you spend a modicum of time before proposing these categories for deletion or, if you are confused about their purpose, feel free to ask me. Slapping these deletion tags is aggressive, not collegiate, and not constructive. Additionally I do not always have time to attend Wikipedia and you risk deleting categories that are actually useful and will need repairing in the process. Happy to discuss further below. --Tom (LT) (talk) 22:25, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Tom (LT),
You are not being wiki-stalked, the category appeared on Wikipedia:Database reports/Empty categories. Tagging empty categories is a daily activity, it is not "aggressive". Empty categories are tagged in accordance with Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#C1. Unpopulated categories, unless they fall into a small number of exceptions. Categories are placed in Category:Empty categories awaiting deletion and, after 7 days, if the category is still empty, it is deleted. If a category has at least one appropriate page assigned to it over that 7 day period, the tag is removed and it is not deleted. If a category is deleted because it was empty for 7 days and it turns out that it is later needed, it can be recreated.
I guess my question for you is why you would create a December 2020 peer review category on November 3rd? Monthly categories are typically created when needed or at the end of the month. You shouldn't be creating categories before they need to be utilized. Liz Read! Talk! 22:39, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
I create it a month in advance because aside from myself often the process is unmaintained. Therefore occasionally as we have done we have peer reviews linking to a category that is not created yet. Additionally, because I also have a life aside from Wikipedia, I am not always present at the end of the month to create these categories, and, because we have no active bots, a bot cannot do this. You are welcome to take on this responsibility. I feel the documentation on the category page is quite clear, so was disappointed that you nominated it in the way that you did. It will clearly be used next month. If in the future this continues to happen I will put a placeholder article to avoid the empty category nomination. I do not believe your action here was constructive. --Tom (LT) (talk) 22:50, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi, reflecting on the above message I think I was somewhat frustrated and have cooled down a bit. I'm sure like me you're trying your best to help out around here. Apologies for being a bit direct above. I guess my main hope is that with regard to peer review you could troubleshoot some pages before proposing them for speedy deletion or, if you have any questions about their purpose (I refer to the pages that were labelled with maintenance tags before), feel free to ask. --Tom (LT) (talk) 23:27, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
@Tom (LT): ALways put {{emptycat}} on maintenance cats you create if you anticipate them being empty for some time. That would prevent exclude it from the database reports for anyone to tag or delete. – SD0001 (talk) 07:55, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, noted. --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:16, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Trilla venus

Hello, you recently deleted and salted Trilla Venus with a db-g5 pointing to User:Lil855. But this odd edit to the talk page of new article Trilla venus suggests a possible connection with WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Nana222222. Thanks, Captain Calm (talk) 11:19, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Captain Calm,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I looked into this and Trilla Venus was created by Realperth85 and then Lil855, both of whom were blocked. The page was deleted three times, mostly for G11 promotional reasons so I protected the page to prevent it from being recreated. I didn't think about Trilla venus, which just existed as a broken redirect which I deleted. But it looks like Discospinster has now protected this page from being recreated.
Affinnitysuccess looks a bit suspicious but I do not possess a good sockpuppet detector and Nana222222 doesn't ring any bells. I looked over Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Nana222222/Archive and don't see any connection to Realperth85 and Lil855. But you can always reopen the SPI case or ask a checkuser to look into it. Liz Read! Talk! 23:49, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


Thanks for deleting the prodded Kahit Minsan Lang article. However, when the topic has been found unfitting for Wikipedia I believe that backlinks should also be removed entirely. See backlinks. I think it can be done with the same script. (Coincidence that you left a talk page message for me earlier; these two things are unrelated.) Geschichte (talk) 09:00, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for letting me know. Liz Read! Talk! 19:21, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Dmytro Nimenko

Hello! Thank you for deleting my page about hockey player Dmytro Nimenko. I'm sure this was great decision. I should know that pages about international hockey players are useless for Wikipedia. Now I can don't waste my time creating and editing pages about Ukrainian hockey. Have a nice day, bro :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serhii79 (talkcontribs) 19:02, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Serhii79,
You're welcome, glad I could help.
By the way, this page was deleted because it was an uncontested PROD. Should you wish to restore it, just ask. Then you could address the problems an editor found with it. Liz Read! Talk! 19:25, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

user: is attempting to post lewd images if you see the filter. CLCStudent (talk) 18:42, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 18:48, 7 November 2020 (UTC)


Can user: 2001:818:E828:F500:304F:19B0:2DA9:F423 please be blocked asap. CLCStudent (talk) 19:05, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 19:13, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you

For deleting List of British Army Regiments (2008). BlueD954 (talk) 02:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, BlueD954,
It was an uncontested PROD so it was deleted. Glad you found it useful. Liz Read! Talk! 02:38, 8 November 2020 (UTC)


Why did you speedily delete Non-free and Nonfree when they were being discussed at RfD, where there was no clear consensus for any single action and two people have explicitly objected to speedy deletion? Thryduulf (talk) 16:00, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Thryduulf,
They were broken redirects. The page that was their redirect target, Proprietary. had been deleted. If you have an alternative redirect target, I'll restore them. Liz Read! Talk! 16:09, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Please restore them as alternative targets are being actively discussed (as linked above) which means they were not eligible for speedy deletion (doubly so as explicit good-faith objections also mean the page is not eligible). That the target was deleted is therefore irrelevant in this case. Thryduulf (talk) 16:14, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Okay. Liz Read! Talk! 02:07, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Thryduulf (talk) 12:44, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Please do not delete restored drafts

Hi Liz, I note that you are still deleting drafts that after not tagged with a g13 tag. Please also check if the draft has been undeleted in the last 6 months, as what is happening is that drafts are restored, and then deleted within a few days by you without any chance for improvements. People should get 6 months grace against g13 after a draft undeletion. In particular this happened today for Draft:Joel P. Corin. Can twinkle be a bit smarter about this? If you pull up the delete screen, it shows the previous deletes and restores, so it is possible to see recent activity. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:30, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Graeme Bartlett,
I check the edit history of every single G13 eligible draft I come across. Without fail. Every one. In, I'd say, 95% of the cases where you've restored a draft at WP:REFUND, you make an edit to the draft to indicate that it's been restored. And I see that edit and I skip that draft because I can see it is restored. Every time I restore a draft, I also make a minor edit to the page to indicate it's a restored draft. But occasionally, I don't know why, you don't make an edit to an draft you restore which is what I guess happened with Draft:Joel P. Corin.
And since these days I delete hundreds of stale drafts a day and you probably restore 10-15 drafts, could you please just make a minor edit to all of your restored drafts? Then I can see that they are restored and these problems probably won't happen. Liz Read! Talk! 02:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
And it isn't just me, Graeme Bartlett. You restored Draft:Radical Liberals, Draft:EUDEMONIZAM, Draft:Derek Ekhoe and Draft:5th Direction, all without making a minor edit to the page, and another editor tagged them all for G13 deletion. If you don't make an edit upon restoration, the drafts will appear in Category:AfC G13 eligible soon submissions and they will be tagged for deletion by one of our editors who patrol this category for aging drafts. Liz Read! Talk! 02:45, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
More people need to be educated, as g13 taggers need to check that too! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:13, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the list, I have also issued a notice to Nathan2055 to check before tag. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:21, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Graeme Bartlett how do you restore these drafts? If you're using WP:RFUDHELPER it will automatically be making dummy edits while restoring drafts which weren't tagged. – SD0001 (talk) 07:58, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Considering that any editor can tag a draft for deletion, it sounds like WP:RFUDHELPER might be a more manageable solution, SD0001. Thanks for the suggestion. Liz Read! Talk! 20:19, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

List of vice presidents of the United States

I checked over your reversion at List of vice presidents of the United States & external sources. Can't see where Biden has already become US president. All sources say, not until January 20, 2021. GoodDay (talk) 22:32, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, GoodDay,
I see we have different perspectives on this election and whether it has been determined who the winner is. I am stepping back right now, this arguing is exhaustive and not productive. Liz Read! Talk! 02:22, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
You're correct. Biden has been elected president of the United States. He just hasn't taken office yet. GoodDay (talk) 02:28, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Jordan Chatman

User:Innosport99 continues to request deletion of Jordan Chatman despite being warned. Perhaps a longer block is in order? ~EDDY (talk/contribs)~ 16:39, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, Editorofthewiki. I've suggested on their talk page that they propose it at AFD so let's see if they choose to take that route. Liz Read! Talk! 20:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't get it

What did you mean? I'm totally taken back by it. Atsme 💬 📧 13:26, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Atsme,
I assume that you are referring to my statement at AE but I'm not sure what is confusing about it. I meant that if your topic ban were lifted, your edits to Antifa would be under scrutiny because of your previous topic ban. Liz Read! Talk! 18:19, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
I have no intention of editing those 2 TPs again - it's too hostile. What I've learned about WP, is that it's important to know when to stop arguing with editors and simply let them be wrong. Calling an RfC is not an offense; however, disrupting or trying to prevent one is - but I'm not guilty of the latter. Also, you're talking about years ago, Liz - how long does that noose hang around an editor's neck? For a lifetime? Atsme 💬 📧 18:28, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Deleted drafts

It would be night if notification of deleted drafts came BEFORE the deletions. People get busy and #2020 and it would be nice to get notice BEFORE work was disappeared. You have more say in these things than I do, would you be so kind as to pass this along?

I can't help but notice that you have a big warning sign which assumes people come to your talk page angry at you. Perhaps, if the people coming here are always angry, they have a point? Thmazing (talk) 01:51, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Thmazing,
First, people who come here angry are not angry about the deletion of their old drafts. They seem to have other issues with me. But frankly, I should remove that notice because those editors have since retired or been blocked and maybe it sends a bad message.
Second, there used to be a bot, Hasteurbot, that posted notices when drafts had been dormant for five months, a month before they became eligible for G13 status. If you look at this discussion at AFC, you'll see me raise the issue of why this bot wasn't working. It turns out that the bot operator passed away in the spring and in cases like that, the bot is deactivated and blocked. You'll see in the discussion that admin Primefac states that Mdaniels5757 is working on a new bot, MDanielsBot 7 which will start up this task again of notifying page creators when their drafts were approaching the 6 month period. Unfortunately, Mdaniels5757 has been absent from Wikipedia for the past four weeks so this project has not moved forward. I hope the bot does become active because it would reduce the number of stale drafts reaching G13 status.
Finally, you do know that in cases of CSD G13 drafts, you can go to WP:REFUND and get your draft restored, right? Or just tell me which one it is and I'll restore it now. Liz Read! Talk! 02:08, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
I hadn't heard about the death. That's humbling.
I tend to take a loooong time finishing some draft and this isn't the first time I've had one erased. I just hate that then I have to hassle someone (in this case, you) to get it restored. It seems like a waste of other people's time.
Thank you for your kind response! If you could restore Draft:Elizabeth Sandford I would be much obliged! Thmazing (talk) 19:57, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
Your draft is restored, Thmazing. Good luck with it! Liz Read! Talk! 00:44, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! Thmazing (talk) 21:45, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

  The Barnstar of Diligence
You seem fair. Techamin (talk) 08:26, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, Techamin. Liz Read! Talk! 00:42, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

GS RichCopy 360

Hi Liz, First, thank you all admins for your hard work. I hope all is well. I see you deleted GS RichCopy 360, which I think had text that can be preceived as promotional in some way. If you are ok with restoring it, I would love to go in and fix it. I will also add more notable sources. I will work on it (remove anything that could lead it to be perceived as promotional and add sources) within a day Thank you very much. -- Techamin (talk) 12:43, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Techamin,
This article was tagged as a PROD which is used for an uncontroversial deletion. Articles deleted as PRODs can be restored upon request. But there are problems with the article so to avoid it being tagged for deletion, I have moved it to your user space at User:Techamin/Sandbox.
Should you have questions about editing and working on articles, I encourage you to visit the Teahouse where experienced editors can address your questions. Liz Read! Talk! 00:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you Liz. Completely understand and I appreciate it. I will go ahead and make all the necessary changes and so forth. May I notify once done so that perhaps we can restore it? it may be a month or so. Thank you once again

(talk) 00:59, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

sock puppet hellp

5 accounts were banned 3 days ago on fa.wikipedia including my two accounts for having same behavior, ip , browser . there are two checkusers in farsi wikipedia and the four of us have failed to prove we are not the same user. im real i have a fb, ig and yt account. can you offer a pathBaratiiman (talk) 14:43, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

four of us have been adviced to identify ourselves to a wikimeta steward by fa wiki admins or go to arbitation comite https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Martin_Urbanec&oldid=20641803 Baratiiman (talk) 14:57, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Baratiiman English Wikipedia isn't the place to appeal or discuss this. Follow the instructions on FA wiki. Praxidicae (talk) 15:01, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
Praxidicae {That's the instruction by the admin Mardetanha in here.https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AB_%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88%DB%8C_%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%87%DB%8C%D8%A6%D8%AA_%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AA/%D8%AF%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%87_%D8%AF%D9%87%D9%85/Behzad39_2#%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%B1_%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%AA%D9%86%D9%87%D8%A7 Baratiiman (talk) 15:03, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't know how have you ended up here, but I think if you have anything it should be directed to here Mardetanha (talk) 15:16, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes, Baratiiman, administrators on the English Wikipedia have no influence over projects in other languages. And I'm not a checkuser so I have no ability to help you. I encourage you to follow the advice of Praxidicae and Mardetanha and visit WikiMedia and ask a steward for help. Liz Read! Talk! 00:34, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Can you please block user: CLCStudent (talk) 00:19, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

  Done and I've protected the article under attack. Liz Read! Talk! 00:30, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Responding to Liz

Hi, Liz. I've responded to your last two messages on my Talk page. Did you see them? Am I supposed to respond to you here? Bruce Kluger (talk) 01:10, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Bruce,
I saw your response and responded on your talk page. Let's keep the discussion there right now. Liz Read! Talk! 01:32, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Page Review

Hi! Thank you for your outstanding contribution to the Wikipedia community. Can you review that article, if you will be able to? It just stalled all my work. I would highly appreciate this. Thanks! MarcusTraianus (talk) 21:32, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, MarcusTraianus,
Looks like the draft was accepted and moved into the main article space of Wikipedia. Congratulations! Liz Read! Talk! 15:18, 14 November 2020 (UTC)


Could you do me a favor and take a look at that hidden attempted edit that user:Bignibber69 was making on her talkpage and take whatever action you deem appropriate? CLCStudent (talk) 15:10, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi, CLCStudent,
They tripped the edit filter because it looks like they were writing something nasty about a real-life or online friend and they used a few bad words. I'm not sure why they reported it as a false positive. I'll keep an eye on them. Liz Read! Talk! 15:16, 14 November 2020 (UTC)


You deleted the above template but it is still linked from Template:Ds. Since you deleted it under G6 I have no idea how the link should be dealt with. You might consider amending the one page as appropriate. --Izno (talk) 19:41, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Izno,
Are you sure you didn't mean Template:Ds/30-500-editnotice? ProcrastinatingReader tagged Template:Ds/extended-confirmed-editnotice as a uncontroversial deletion and I trust their judgment with templates. Liz Read! Talk! 19:48, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Either template. :) 30-500 was a redirect to EC editnotice. --Izno (talk) 19:50, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
This one is a result of this TfD (which you closed, and Liz deleted as G6 after I finished the orphaning). In practice iirc & afaik people stopped stopped tagging pages with EC-protected editnotices after it became enforced by the software with WP:ECP. I've removed the wording from {{Ds}}. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Ah, ok. One or both of you, try to remember that a link to the XFD should appear in the log. --Izno (talk) 20:30, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the alert, Izno. Liz Read! Talk! 21:46, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion about First Lady and Second Gentleman-designate titles in infoboxes of Jill Biden and Doug Emhoff

Please join a discussion here regarding whether the terms "First Lady of the United States Designate" and "Second Gentleman of the United States Designate" should be in the infoboxes of Jill Biden and Doug Emhoff, spouses of the president-elect and vice president-elect, respectively. We need to come to a consensus. Thank you for your participation. cookie monster (2020) 755 21:28, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, CookieMonster755,
Are there now strong opinions about the designations of spouses of soon-to-be-installed politicians? Regardless of my opinions about the 2020 election, those are unwieldy titles. My typical opinion about these matters is stick with precedence. I'm in the midst of a project right now but will pop over to that page sometime this afternoon. Thanks for letting me know. Liz Read! Talk! 21:33, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Template:NSW Country lines stations/testcases

Thank you for deleting the various templates in [20] during the past week. This is part of converting over 400 templates and template redirects to Template:Adjacent stations in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne, Australia which is quite a big job. The conversion of Brisbane is complete with Sydney finished by the end of this week and Melbourne still some work to be done.I submitted another lot for deletion at [21] last Saturday with another 7 lots planned for weekly submission by early January 2021. My question relates to the the template in the heading which does not appear to be used now - I last made some changes in 2018. But I was surprised to see its talk page deleted this morning as G8 as the template itself still exists.Deletion log 02:36 Liz talk contribs deleted page Template talk:NSW Country lines stations/testcases ‎(G8: Redirect to a deleted or nonexistent page) I wonder why? Perhaps the template itself should also be deleted??? Fleet Lists (talk) 03:16, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Fleet Lists,
Looking into the page history, here's what I can tell you:
Are you asking whether to delete Template:NSW Country lines stations/testcases? When I checked, the only page that linked to it was Template:NSW Country lines stations/testcases/row. You are probably immersed in this enough to know whether either of these pages is necessary so you can choose whether to tag them for deletion.
Frankly, what you've taken on sounds daunting to me. Changing these public transit template arrangements sound enormous to me. Liz Read! Talk! 03:48, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you Liz for your prompt answer. The action by Anomiebot on Oct 4, 2018 seems to have started the problem and I guess we will never know why. The other actions all make sense and I had already checked those out and were OK. I will investigate the template in question and also the associated "row" template which I suspect can also be removed. If so, I will include them both in one of the future delete submissions. I will probably drive admins crazy with them over the next few weeks. I hope I am not causing any trouble.
As far as missing the talk page is concerned, there were a number of talk pages missed as the non admin who closed the submission did not tag the redirect talk pages but instead tagged the talk pages to which they redirected twice. I reported the non deletion of the talk pages concerned in the deletion page holding cell from where I assume Fastily deleted them. see [22] but this did not include Template talk:NSW Country lines stations I dont know why. Fleet Lists (talk) 05:08, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes, the bot action is puzzling. I never saw a bot provide such a specific and unusual message as an edit summary. Any way, I'm sure as soon as you do all of the tagging (which is a chore in itself), some admin will do the deletion. There are always admins patrolling the CSD categories, it's one of the few places on Wikipedia where you can be sure to find an admin or two. Liz Read! Talk! 05:49, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi Liz. Two points - the template in the heading for which the talk page was deleted earlier this week, was deleted itself earlier today again by Fastily just as I was about to nominate it for deletion in the lot I have just uploaded. [23] And the ones I uploaded last Saturday [24] again have a number of redirect templates for which the talk pages have not been deleted.Fleet Lists (talk) 03:45, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Looks like I got to some of them. Liz Read! Talk! 03:49, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi Liz. Not you this week but [25] this time shows four talk pages which have not been deleted. Could you attend to that please.Fleet Lists (talk) 11:38, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Category deletion

Back in June, you deleted Category:South Australia articles missing geocoordinate data as an empty category. This is just a courtesy notification that I've restored it, since it's a hidden tracking category populated by any articles to which the template {{coord missing|South Australia}} has been added and, as such, will occasionally be empty whenever geographic coordinates are added to articles containing that template. If you have any questions or comments, don't hesitate to post on my talk page. Deor (talk) 22:50, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Deor,
Thanks for letting me know, of course I have no objections, empty categories can be restored whenever they are needed. I'm surprised it was a tracking category, I should have placed an {{emptycat}} tag on it. Liz Read! Talk! 23:11, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Edit-warring user

Hi Liz, I just saw your comments on user Konli17 Talk page, and since this user has captured your attention with the multiple edit wars they are involved in, I thought I would draw your attention to two cases against them that have not attracted admin attention yet here and here. The second one was just archived without decision although it involved a violation of the Syrian Civil War community sanctions (1RR). The lack/delay of admin action has encouraged this user to go on with their disruptive editing, personal attacks and edit warring. Here they have reverted to remove the same information five times since 12 November. This user edits with a very aggressive POV-pushing agenda, and resort to personal attacks (I provided links to six in the noticeboard, and there is more) when their arguments fails. Thank you for your attention, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 03:33, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم,
I'm sorry your case at WP:ANEW got archived without a resolution. I don't close cases on that noticeboard so I'm reluctant to take action on the most recent complaint. I'm not up-to-date on the analysis of evidence there and typical sanctions. The case seems valid so if it gets archived, I would "unarchive" it. I wasn't aware of the Syrian Civil War sanctions and will have to look into those. I have given Konli17 warnings for edit warring so if I see him do this again, I will issue a block. Liz Read! Talk! 03:48, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Just found the relevant information at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Syrian Civil War and Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Liz Read! Talk! 04:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

I just restored my complaint into the noticeboard. Hopefully somebody will look into it. Thank you very much and stay safe, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 04:33, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

I have to admit that I wasn't aware of the Syrian sanctions because they do not appear on the General Sanctions or Discretionary Sanctions list. Liz Read! Talk! 04:35, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi Liz, please see this latest revert by the same user (7th in 4 days) and look at their deceiving edit summary, while the edit is going against the advice of the moderator Sixula (talk · contribs) and against all other editors (including Paradise chronicle) who is on their same side of the story. Kind regards, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 18:55, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for continuing to bother you with this, but yet another problematic mass removal of sourced, relevant content by the same user under a false summary edit (clean up). Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 21:43, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi Liz, there are now 4 cases open against user Konli17 WP:ANEW and none of them has seen admin action. Would you mind looking into those? Thanks, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 08:35, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم,
I'm sorry to miss your recent messages but I found myself involved in other activities and didn't scan up my talk page. I'll leave WP:ANEW to those admins who patrol there but I'll keep an eye on the disputed pages today. I've found the editor mainly editing Turkey- and Kurd-related pages as well as Syrian subjects. Liz Read! Talk! 19:43, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

reverted because"

That edit at Nazi Party was reverted because . . . .? Carptrash (talk) 04:50, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Because the standard references is to "Jews" not "Jewish people" which seems to be your own invention. Liz Read! Talk! 04:52, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Okay. Carptrash (talk) 05:01, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Further problem deleting drafts

Hi Liz, Good afternoon from Australia.

Really you should not be deleting drafts with reason g13, unless they have been tagged with a g13 tag. This will avoid you deleting pages that are not eligible such as Draft:Mint Mobile, which was edited about 50 minutes before you deleted it. Anyway I have restored this one so the editor should now be satisfied. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 06:15, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Graeme Bartlett,
I rely on User:SDZeroBot/G13 soon and User:SDZeroBot/G13 eligible which are pages created by an approved bot that determines G13 eligibility. The bot operator is SD0001. I don't see the point of me tagging each stale draft and then immediately deleting it, sending two notices to the page creator. Or are you asking me to wait until a different editor notices a stale draft and tags it before I then delete it instead of just determining the G13 status myself? That's just causing work for two editors instead of one and implying that another editor is better at determining G13 status than SDZeroBot. SDZeroBot has proven to be an invaluable tool for folks at AFC with the reports it issues.
Last night, I had a tab open with Draft:Mint Mobile and an editor edited the page 46 minutes before it became eligible for a G13. I should have refreshed the screen to see if there were any last minute edits but I didn't anticipate that, after 6 months of inactivity, an editor would suddenly edit a stale draft less than an hour before it entered G13 status. I delete hundreds of drafts a week and this was a rare mistake. But I'll ensure it doesn't happen again. Liz Read! Talk! 21:44, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm the editor that made the last-minute edit. I am also an active G13 tagger (which you have admonished me for despite engaging in similar behavior yourself.) Anyway, I'm just popping in here to tell you why a random G13 draft was edited at the last minute. --Squeeps10 Talk to meMy edits 23:51, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
It was a real fluke that it happened with Mint Mobile. I would think it inappropriate for you to tag g13 and then immediately delete, and wasting your time. Instead I am suggesting to wait until a different editor tags it. Even if it is more work, it gets more eyes on the drafts. And I see no shortage of willing taggers. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:52, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Replying to Liz: Just FYI, I've been known to look at the "tail end" of nearly-6-month-old drafts and make edits to them. Same with looking at nearly-90-day-old items in the new-page-patrol log. I would be very surprised if other AFC reviewers and NPP patrollers don't do the same, at least occasionally. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 21:58, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Sigh. No, Squeeps10, you know that statement is not true. I admonished you for tagging G13 stale drafts EARLY, before they were eligible. On the day I posted that talk page message, you were tagging old drafts HOURS before they were eligible. I just asked you to check the edit history and not tag them before they were eligible, I have no problem with you tagging them at all, as long as it is not early.
As for your proposal, I think it's nuts. Here I go to User:SDZeroBot/G13 eligible at 00:00 UTC and see a list of 29 drafts that are now eligible for deletion. Eligible right now. Are you saying I should wait for a different editor to stumble upon this list and tag each one before I can delete them? What rational reason can there be for eligible drafts to be tagged by one editor, saying they are ready for deletion, before I, an admin, can delete the page? I need Squeebs10's "okay" tagging before I can delete a page?
Should this be a rule for all admins, that they need to wait for all speedy deletion eligible pages to be tagged by regular editors before they can delete a page? If this is going to be a new policy, this should go to the Village Pump because I see admins delete pages all day long that are not tagged by other editors. Or are G13 a special case? If so, why?
We are really going to be creating new rules for all admins to follow because I make an occasional mistake? Liz Read! Talk! 00:59, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
Apologies, perhaps my wording was not clear. I did not intend to imply that you admonished me for G13 tagging drafts, I was simply saying that you left a message on my talk page about tagging drafts early while you have also deleted drafts 2+ hours early on rare occasions. --Squeeps10 Talk to meMy edits 01:11, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
As for Graeme's proposal, I do think it's a good idea, and to be honest I was under the impression it was already the custom. Even when such a deletion is clearly mandated by policy such as G13, I don't think it's a good idea for admins to unilaterally delete pages without a CSD, PROD, or AFD tag. It leads to situations like the one that this thread was originally about. I'd support such an idea were it proposed at the village pump.--Squeeps10 Talk to meMy edits 01:16, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Murder of Samuel Paty has an RFC


Talk:Murder of Samuel Paty has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Assem Khidhr (talk) 03:34, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Myles Turner

Hi Liz, urgent page protection needed on Myles Turner. Thanks.-KH-1 (talk) 05:20, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

It's been protected. Liz Read! Talk! 05:26, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 41

  The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 41, September – October 2020

  • New partnership: Taxmann
  • WikiCite
  • 1Lib1Ref 2021

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --10:47, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Revdel request

This revision is page-hijacking spam, please nuke under WP:CRD5/WP:G11. Editor name is "Briindustry" trying to hijack page and make it about a company called "BRI Groups Inc." See editor's talk page.[26] davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 18:29, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, DavidWR. I just gave them a username block as it was the name of an organization. Liz Read! Talk! 18:34, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
So, is revdel overkill here? I'm asking because I run into things like this from time to time and if it is overkill, I'll stop asking for it in these circumstances. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 18:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

  The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
I appreciate your sentiments and work you are doing here in Wikipedia. I award you this.
🇮🇳DRCNSINDIA (talk) 08:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Recoverying deleted draft?

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Hi there! My draft was deleted after six months. I manually readded it to Wiki but my draft text is gone. Can you help me get it back? I had written the skeleton outline for https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Joseph_Raymond_Lucero&action=edit&redlink=1 but I couldn't find the article so I couldn't edit it. If the first draft I wrote is not recoverable, I will not be rewritting it and in that case, this stub can be deleted (although I would like it to be considered for adoption at this is an actor of color who is doing good work and deserve recognition)

Hello, KatProducedThat,
I have restored the draft at Draft:Joseph_Raymond_Lucero upon your request. Happy editing! Liz Read! Talk! 19:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Question about deleted page

You deleted the page Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Agsfdet almost a week ago, but why? I created it because the sockpuppet investigation casepage had been created. But Oshwah changed the sockpuppeteer from Agsfdet to Tt789eryu. Can you just explain why you deleted it? –Cupper52Talk to me! 20:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Cupper52,
I don't see that Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Agsfde was ever a category. Liz Read! Talk! 20:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I see you've edited your query (which you shouldn't do after I responded to it) to Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Agsfdet. That category was an uncontroversial deletion on Nov. 17. This often happens with sockpuppet categories when their original sockpuppeteer account is identified. For example, it could initially be thought that User:Example was a sockpuppet of User:Cupper52 but ultimately it's discovered that it's a sockpuppet of User:Liz. In this case, Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Cupper52 would be deleted.
This category deletion can also be understood by the fact that Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Agsfdet was an empty category with no identified sockpuppets. Should that change, the category can be recreated. Liz Read! Talk! 12:11, 24 November 2020 (UTC)


Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

At the risk of being given a deserved RTFM response [though I believe I did], have you a moment to tell me what I did wrong when setting up automatic archiving at talk:Milton Keynes? It had accumulated years of detritus and did need a good clear-out, which it cluebot did admirably. Did I actually set two boys running?

I suspect I won't ever do another one so feel free to ignore with a clear conscience. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, John Maynard Friedman,
I'd ask at the Teahouse or ClueBot Commons as the bot operator Cobi hasn't edited since September. I just saw all of the extra talk page archive pages over the past three days and deleted them. I removed the code that was causing the errors as I didn't know how to fix it. But I'm sure an editor patrolling the Teahouse would know. Liz Read! Talk! 20:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message

 Hello! Voting in the 2020 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 7 December 2020. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2020 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:34, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Can you restore this page

Can you restore Vanessa Peh? Why is it even deleted? Vaxxcat36 (talk) 13:12, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Vanessa Peh was tagged with a PROD which is an uncontroversial deletion. In these situations, an article can be deleted unless an editor objects to it. It also means that the article can be restored upon request which isn't the case with other kinds of deletion on Wikipedia. Since you requested it, I have restored the article. If you look at the edit history, you will see the reasons why it was tagged with a PROD tag.
Let me know if you have other questions or you can visit the Teahouse for help with your editing. Liz Read! Talk! 13:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Liz. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

DÅRTHBØTTØ (TC) 20:17, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Replied. Liz Read! Talk! 22:51, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Chrysochus auratus (Dogbane Beetle) histmerge

Hi Liz, a little before you G13'd that draft, I incorporated most of the good material in it into the existing article (Chrysochus auratus) and requested a histmerge. Could you still do that, if appropriate? Cheers --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 22:48, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Elmidae,
I've restored the draft upon your request...that's the easy part! However, I request you ask another admin to do the histmerg. I've never done one and it's an irreversible procedure. I'd hate to screw up your article! I think I'll go write some mock drafts and practice histmergs on them so I can help out in the future. I'm sorry not to be able to help with this. Liz Read! Talk! 22:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! I assume someone who likes them will pick it up from the log :) --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 22:58, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


Hey, thanks for the note, I opened a new section to resolve dispute on article talk page (see here). but the user refused to respond to the previous messages.Eliko007 (talk) 20:29, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Eliko007,
Considering that he was just unblocked, I'm hoping that he becomes more responsive now. Thanks for starting the discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 20:32, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Liz, The new section in talk page which Eliko007 create is not new, this section returns to its establishment ten days ago and discusses another topic that differs from the current topic. The good man 232 (talk) 20:55, 26 November 2020 (UTC)


Hey, I want to ask about a source, ,World Christian Encyclopedia which is published by Oxford University Press, and the author is professor at Columbia University ([27]), ([28]), the source passes WP: RELIABILITY.?. Eliko007 (talk) 00:22, 27 November 2020 (UTC)


  The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
Very kind of you to help ensure that Growth of religion isn't being used to push POV. Eliko007 (talk) 14:19, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, Eliko007! Liz Read! Talk! 18:59, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Humble request for advice on how to react to low quality articles

Hey, Liz! Sorry to bother you but I came across a article which had a lota facts but zero citations to back the claims. My consciousness told me that those articles could contain falsified information and could lead regular users to manipulated conclusions. I personally don't think those kind of articles should exist. I used Twinkle for doing a CSD but couldn't decide what reason to choose. I hope I am not doing something wrong. Once I nominated the article for a CSD, you have rejected it stating the following "Removing CSD tag. Doesn't seem to be a made-up school." which I 100% agree with but I don't know what other criteria I can nominate similar articles on. I am a simple man who's trying to make the encyclopedia a bit more accurate. Please do keep in mind that I am not an experienced Wikipedian, I obviously make mistakes and if you find them then please do correct it. I really appreciate your advice. Thank you so much and once again sorry to bother you on these presumed silly questions - Call me Karthik 😉🤞 (talkcontribs) — Preceding undated comment added 18:47, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Call me Karthik 😉🤞,
Don't worry about asking questions, that is how you learn. If you want to be tagging articles, please review Criteria for Speedy Deletion carefully. If a page doesn't fit any of the criteria, then it probably shouldn't be deleted. The criteria are very specific and meant to only apply to pages that clearly fit them. And just because you haven't heard of something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
A good place to go if you have questions is the Teahouse, it was very helpful to me when I was starting out. Also, you might be interested in Wikipedia:Counter-Vandalism Unit or Wikipedia:New pages patrol if you are interested in doing anti-vandalism work. Liz Read! Talk! 18:58, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your valuable time and advice, Liz! I will surely check out TeaHouse. - Call me Karthik 😉🤞 (talkcontribs)

A barnstar for you!

  The Special Barnstar
For speedily deleting a large portion of the pages I nominate for speedy deletion, I award you the Special Barnstar. Scorpions13256 (talk) 02:57, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, Scorpions13256, but I DO check each one prior to deletion. Thanks again! Liz Read! Talk! 02:58, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Ping retraction

Sorry Liz for the last ping, as I made a mistake on seeing what was deleted/recreated. Please ignore. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:20, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

No problem. I'm not very regular at checking my notifications so I was unaware of this. Liz Read! Talk! 05:30, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

AfD for deaths due to COVID-19 and related RfC

Hi. Thanks for commenting at the recent AfD for the above list. There is now an ongoing discussion around the best way to split the list, if any, if you wish to comment further. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:35, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, Lugnuts. Liz Read! Talk! 18:27, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 November 2020


user:2601:245:C480:F1E0:C86B:8214:95D9:565F is abusing her talkpage. CLCStudent (talk) 18:08, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

  Done Liz Read! Talk! 18:26, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Can user: please be blocked asap. CLCStudent (talk) 18:40, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Henry Oakes Kent

Hello! Could you please restore the deleted talk page? Best, Vermont (talk) 00:26, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

  Done. L235 should have made a minor edit to the page after restoration so the draft was not listed for deletion again at User:SDZeroBot/G13 eligible. But this is not uncommon. Sorry for the double deletion. Liz Read! Talk! 00:30, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Moving User Page

Hi! Could you move User:Illusion705/Templates/Navigation1 to User:Illusion705/Template/Navigation1? My account isn't old enough to move pages. Thanks!
    Illusion705 talk | contribs  00:50, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

  Done. Happy editing, Illusion705! Liz Read! Talk! 01:04, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! You too!     Illusion705 talk | contribs  01:08, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2020

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2020).

  Administrator changes


  Interface administrator changes


  Guideline and policy news

  Technical news


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:37, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Draft:W. J. Watt & Co. undelete

Could you undelete Draft:W. J. Watt & Co., as WP:G13 does not apply? Techie3 (talk) 04:21, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Techie3,
I've restored the draft. G13 did apply, the last edit to the page was May 29, 2020 which is over 6 months ago. However, the draft had been restored but the restoring admin didn't indicate this with an edit to the draft and so it appeared to be eligible for G13 again. This was an oversight. Liz Read! Talk! 04:38, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Can user: please be blocked asap. See their filter log and contribs. CLCStudent (talk) 20:36, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

  Done It's strange how they pick these obscure articles to damage. It must be random. Liz Read! Talk! 20:38, 1 December 2020 (UTC)