User talk:JJMC89/Archives/2018/May

Active discussions


Can you help me understand what happened at HAVE DOUGHNUT? I've been inactive for a while and seem to have forgotten how things work :) It was a redirect that I created in 2014. I requested speedy deletion earlier today to make way to move Have Doughnut to HAVE DOUGHNUT (and create a redirect to it at Have Doughnut). If I read the logs correctly, it was deleted by @Explicit: at 18:13:52 PDT but recreated by User:JJMC89 bot at 18:17:03. What's happening here? Thanks. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 04:00, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

@AlanM1: The bot touches pages in Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls. It looks like the page was deleted in the time between when the bot got the list of pages in the category and when it went to touch that page, so it was unintentionally recreated. It can be deleted again. — JJMC89 04:12, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
@AlanM1: I've deleted it once more. Unlucky timing! xplicit 05:02, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Explicit. — JJMC89 05:07, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
I saw the same thing, and was quite confused too. Forgive me if I'm entirely clueless, but I'm reading that the primary purpose of null editing is that it affects categories. What, then, is the point of null editing a page that is already in a category? Also, would it be possible for the bot to make another check to verify that the page still exists before making the null edit, or would that be an unreasonable consumption of time/resources compared to the amount of work it would save? Compassionate727 (T·C) 12:23, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Oh, AlanM1, does Have Doughnut still need to be moved? Compassionate727 (T·C) 12:24, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Yup. Done. Thanks all. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 15:40, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
The point is to remove it from the category if the problem is fixed, e.g. in a transcluded template. It is supposed to check if the page exists[1]. — JJMC89 04:37, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Context needed for bot changes

So far as they affect the articles that interest me, the changes to BSicon in progress are neutral. But it would have been polite, it seems to me, to have left a briefing note here that explains what you are doing and why you are doing it. The bot is changing a great number of articles at once so an edit note that simply says "changing X to Y" is not documenting the reason for the change, which is what edit notes should do. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:15, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the BSicon naming conventions or why BSicons get renamed. Usually discussions can be found at c:Talk:BSicon/Renaming. I only operate the bot since route diagram templates don't use syntax recognized by global replace / CommonsDelinker. — JJMC89 03:47, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the pointer but it it was more the general principle that I was driving at, as next time there will be different context. The edit summaries produced by the bot at present are unhelpful since they only say what it is doing [which can see from a diff anyway], but not why it is doing it. So my suggestion is that the edit summaries should point to the discussion that asked you to run the bot. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 18:02, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
If it were doing one replacement at a time, it could use the move log similar to CommonsDelinker; however, it does all replacements per page in one edit. Discussions that lead to renaming differ per BSicon and are usually not specified in the move log, so it is not possible to include it in the edit summary. If you're referring to the original bot request, it list linked in the BRFA for this task. I'm open to suggestions if you have any. — JJMC89 04:52, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

List Comparer

Hi. You recently created Wikipedia:Good articles/mismatches for me using list comparer from AWB. I was trying to fine tune the list to make it easier to manage, but can't seem to make a list larger than 25 000 entries. There are 27,755 Good Articles so this number is a bit short. Did you have a way to increase the list numbers when you ran it or is there another workaround? AIRcorn (talk) 11:46, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for that list by the way. I have sorted out the mismatched categories and am currently working through the GA lists. AIRcorn (talk) 11:47, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

I think I got it using recursive categories. Trial and error eventually gets there. AIRcorn (talk) 12:01, 6 May 2018 (UTC)


Whole section can't be just undone because of citations missing. You can add citations or leave it to oher users to add them by time. It takes time to do a quality job. And thanks for grammar edits on Dalida page. I invite you to continue that work while we are updating her page. As a person who doesn't speak english as a main thounge, I need all help from you. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by DalidaEditor (talkcontribs) 12:00, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

That's not the way it works. Per WP:BURDEN, it is your responsibility to provide citations. — JJMC89 14:10, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Ah yes, my apologies. I thought I could add text and then gradually add sources. I'm glad the problem is not in the text but in the lack of cited sources. Now I've added text with sources and I would be happy if you check it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DalidaEditor (talkcontribs) 19:12, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Article redrafted

Article Frederick Potter redrafted with references Hugo999 (talk) 10:50, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. It took me a bit to figure out my connection to the article. — JJMC89 17:40, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Redirects in FURs

Hi JJMC89. Just noticed this edit you made. Thanks for tweaking that. At the same time though, redirects are considered OK for |article= per WP:NFCC#cite_note-2; so, this type of thing is not technically considered to be a NFCC#10c viloation so to speak if that was a concern of yours. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:22, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Marchjuly. I know redirects are OK, but Crysis is not a redirect. — JJMC89 01:25, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
You're correct. My bad. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:41, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Sj/Update Congress

I edited User:Sj/Update Congress removing a colon in order to solve a Multi colon escape lint error, and you reverted, reinserting the colon in order to "colon-ize" the categories. How can we solve both problems? And by the way, I have no idea how this works. Is there documentation for #invoke? —Anomalocaris (talk) 05:51, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know how to fix the lint error and keep the page out of article categories (other than by removing the transclusions). You're looking for Module:String's replace function. (#invoke invokes Scribunto Lua modules.) — JJMC89 05:56, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Logo on Birla Institute of Technology, Mesra

Lost you on this one. School logo seems like the textbook example of WP:NFCC, what am I missing? --Muhandes (talk) 17:42, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Oh, was it because the image FUR had the wrong target? --Muhandes (talk) 17:43, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Yes. I can't read the text on the logo, so I couldn't tell if the article in the FUR or the file title was wrong. (I have seen both.) — JJMC89 00:46, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Yes, fully understood. I must have copy-pasted the FUR. --Muhandes (talk) 12:50, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Band-e-Amir Dragons: image removed

Hi - You recently removed a team logo from Band-e-Amir Dragons. The image is non-free content, but is the official logo of the team so there is no alternative. I wonder if you could advise what could be done to make it ok to retain the image? For instance, I don't see how it is different to the logo on Kent County Cricket Club or Sussex County Cricket Club (which are of course much more established clubs). The rationale for this image appears to be virtually the same. Thanks Bs1jac (talk) 10:03, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @Bs1jac: It looks as if the "rationale" with the uploaded file was copied from that for another file, as it describes the logo of Mis Ainak Knights. You might be able to edit the file description to make it correct and acceptable. See here. PamD 11:44, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Pam. Bs1jac, what Pam said. I see you've updated the rationale. — JJMC89 03:10, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

A request (prompted by a request at OTRS)

I have a request, but first a couple introductory remarks.

I strongly support Wikipedia's pillar of neutrality. As you know, we've long had an issue with COI and paid editing. There's been a lot of interest in these areas recently in Wikipedia has appropriately tightened its guidelines in these areas including strength and disclosure requirements. I'll also note that while I'm supportive, and have read a fair amount of the documentation, I'm not as close to it as some so there may be some things I don't know about.

One important observation, and one potentially flawed if I'm missing some things, is that we as a community are fairly good at identifying the type of behavior that is to be discouraged or prohibited, and less adept at guidelines or instructions on how problems should be addressed.

This email is prompted by the fact that I'm an OTRS agent and have been contacted in connection with Ed Gold. I note that the article has a prominent template identifying a problem, but unless I'm missing something I don't see clear instructions on what should be done to remove this template. It does have a link to Wikipedia:Cleanup, but that is rather vague. From the point of view of the subject, if they were to ask what they could do to help, I'm short on good answers.

I hope I have one decent answer. Would you be willing to enter into a discussion, probably via email, with the subject of the article in order to identify solutions? --S Philbrick(Talk) 19:32, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick: Unfortunately, I don't have anything new to add since the last time this came up. Paid editing can be addressed in much the same way that other NPOV/COI issues are addressed.
For this specific article, I referred the subject to OTRS. The article isn't in a field that I am familiar with, and I don't have any experience assisting conflicted editors address article issues. I would prefer that someone else engage with the subject. Theroadislong, since you edited the article to address neutrality issues after I tagged it, are there outstanding issues, or can the template be removed now?
— JJMC89 03:47, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
hey JJMC89, you placed the "paid connected contributor" tag; I don't see where Mcarse disclosed that they are editing for pay, but I do see that they have created some things that were deleted. Are you aware if that person disclosed somewhere, or is that more "looks a lot like a paid editor"? Jytdog (talk) 04:00, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
It is undisclosed paid editing. (The template doesn't say anything about the editor needing to have disclosed.) I received private information that lead me to that conclusion. — JJMC89 04:10, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I reviewed the page carefully, did some editing, and removed the tag, and left a note on the talk page. I will talk with the editor to see if I can get them oriented and disclosing properly Jytdog (talk) 04:23, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Jytdog. — JJMC89 04:31, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
User:Sphilbrick - for a COI or advert or UPE tag, somebody has to go through and carefully look at the page and remove all the crappy things that paid editors and conflicted editors generally do - namely unsourced stuff, badly sourced stuff, leaving out negative stuff. The Ed Gold page was actually very strong already (it had been scrubbed by two people subsequent to the conflicted editor) and there was not too much more to do. I am going to double check to see if anything negative has been left out; that is the last step to ensuring neutrality - a paid or conflicted editor will almost leave bad stuff out. They might bring sources that talk about it or focus on it, but will just leave that out. If you ever want to help somebody directly through editing, that is the work you need to do. Another option would be to post at COIN and ask folks there if they will work on it. These situations are hard - if somebody pays an editor who acts badly, and the article ends up tagged... coming back to the volunteer community to fix it, even via OTRS, is not necessarily going to be welcomed... hard. Jytdog (talk) 04:37, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

South African coat of arms

The coat of arms of all South African provinces, districts and municipalities are currently copyrighted, meaning they can only appear in articles as fair use images. If you intend to remove them as NFCC violations I'd suggest you notify WP:ZA first, as it would affect some 250 pages.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:33, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

The likely case is that the usage did not satisfy WP:NFCC#10c. Without a link to a specific article, I can't give exact details. — JJMC89 18:01, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
The article in question is, I suspect, Bojanala Platinum District Municipality. The problem was that the NFUR on the image referred to the wrong article. - htonl (talk) 12:10, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Route errors

Hi, I've not had time to look into it as I just got to work but I thought I'd point out that your bot appears to have broken several route templates affecting maybe 50 articles. 7 templates are showing up in Category:Templates with missing files that I think are affected, causing a lot of the issues listed on Category:Articles with missing files. I'll try to look into it tonight after work if you, or someone else, hasn't already fixed it. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 08:43, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

I looked all the templates and some of the articles, but I don't see any errors that were caused by my bot. Could you provide some diffs? — JJMC89 14:16, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Hey JJMC89 yes it does appear that rather than the edit causing the errors it was the just that the new edits caused missing file issues to show up. For instance Template:Sofia Metro 1 in the "Detailed track map" section once opened a few of images are red-linked. But the same errors show from the previous version as well. Looking at a couple of examples
I changed these double redirects to a single and did a null edit and the number of errors reduced, so it does appear that its the double redirects that is causing these. More to sort out but I'm at work so can't do any more now. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 15:17, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Double redirects are no good. The recent moves were by Jc86035. — JJMC89 01:57, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
I think I fixed them all, or at least all that were creating issues flagged in those cats. As I regularly monitor those I'll catch any other double redirects that attempt to be used on EP:WP. I guess someone would have to do a database search to see if any others lurking unused on commons. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 09:46, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
@KylieTastic and JJMC89: Sorry about that; pywikibot's double redirect fixer doesn't really seem to work for me. (The reason I use pywikibot is, largely, that I was told it was fine to make automated edits on my main account when I made a bot request. Also, there were about 7,000 files.) Jc86035's alternate account (talk) 16:47, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
No worries Jc86035's alternate account appears to be all fixed.... just don't do it again ;) - a few problems like this are always likely when doing large amounts of edits. If the overall effect is a net positive to the project, it's all good in my book. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 17:56, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Charles Winquist Photo

I cannot figure out why this has been removed. I got the message (seen below Pamela Nett Kruger email), and thought fair use applied. I reposted it thinking it was okay. Who do I contact regarding this? The image sent was a California State University, Chico, "license use reproduction." Do you need the form from the university, or something else? Thank you.


Pamela Nett Kruger ((Redacted)) To:you + 2 more Details Slideshow


Thank you for your interest in material at Meriam Library. Your request was forwarded to me.

The photo Diego sent you is from the faculty file, handwritten on the back is “1986”. That is the only information on it. Please credit California State University, Chico, Meriam Library Special Collections in a caption or credit.

From discussion with Diego, you are requesting a scan of the faculty file which contains curriculum vitae, and press releases and a clipping.

Please fill out the form attached for the information you request.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Best, Pam

Pamela Nett Kruger, MA, MLIS

Special Collections & University Archives


Wikipedia reply: Thanks for uploading File:Charles E. Winquist.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clyde DeForest Switzer (talkcontribs) 16:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Per WP:NFCC#10c, each use of a non-free file must have a rationale on the file description page. File:Charles E. Winquist.jpg doesn't have a rationale. — JJMC89 02:32, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
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