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Happy editing! Bermicourt (talk) 13:15, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


Thank you for your very helpful edits to Matzlfangen. I have tried to make contact with Hackenbuch and the Matzlfangen players to find out further details of play, but without success. Bermicourt (talk) 13:15, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

That's great. It would be good to create a German wiki article on this game and invite Daglinger to comment on it or amend it. I'm not sure my German is quite up to it though...!
Have you considered joining the International Playing Card Society? It's not expensive if you order their quarterly magazine electronically and it gives access to all their back copies as well. There are a number of us who write articles on card games, especially the more unusual ones. I've just completed a series on games native to Schleswig-Holstein, of which 2 have yet to be published. We don't get paid for them by the way, so that's not my motive for flagging it up! I've found it a really useful forum. Bermicourt (talk) 20:19, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
I recently had a two-part article published on the German game of Bruus, formerly known as Brusbart, which had not been known about before. I discovered that its history goes back about 300 years, it's descended from Karnöffel, Europe's oldest card game, and that there are still a few village in Schleswig where it's played. In March I visited the area to learn the game and take part in a tournament. It turns out to be really fun game! In between I wrote a short article on a two-hand game I invented that allows you to simulate Strawman Tarock with Tell cards in the same way that the Tapp family simulated Tapp Tarock historically. I've submitted another article on Fipsen as played in Großenaspe and have one in the pipeline on Knüffeln which I also played during my trip to Schleswig. I plan to write a further article on Silesian Karnöffel as played around 1850 as I've recently unearthed a detailed account of the rules which are not known to modern scholarship. And I have ideas for others. However, I've been ably assisted by other members of IPCS including John McLeod who is great at helping me understand game play, and Jonas Richter who is a German archivist and great at tracking down sources. It's always good to have expertise and people 'on the ground' in Germany and Austria. Bermicourt (talk) 06:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
That's amazing! Only yesterday I created 4 new articles on Swedish games: Norseman's Knock, Svängknack, Köpknack and Knack. One of the sets of rules I used came from the Swedish Vira website! I don't speak Swedish, so my translations may leave a little to be desired! You will notice that I have a pack of Modern Swedish pattern cards which I have photographed for authenticity!
BTW feel free to correct or enhance any of them. Bermicourt (talk) 06:59, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Naming of Swedish games. Yes, that's right. The reason is that the game is called Norseman's Knock in David Parlett's book on worldwide games and so we have a respected and authoritative source for the English name. It's rather a good name because "Norsemen" are thought of as warriors! But the other games are not covered in his book, so I've stayed with the Swedish names to be faithful to my source. This is always a challenge on Wikipedia: consistency v. authenticity. The real world is often not consistent. The name Bayern Munich is a good example: why do we translate Munich but not Bayern? I don't know, but the team is always known as Bayern Munich in English; no-one would ever call it anything else. But I'm just excited at being able to bring this aspect of Swedish culture to light. Bermicourt (talk) 06:45, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Hahahahaha!!! Love it! Actually it's those dodgy Danes we are nervous about. They come to Britain, burn our villages, steal our womenfolk, demand Danegeld and then have the cheek to settle here and rename our settlements! Okay so it was over a thousand years ago. And as a result most of us probably have Scandinavian blood! Bermicourt (talk) 12:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Back to Matzlfangen. There are 2 developments. First, I have created an article in German on de.wiki. It would be good to invite Daglinger to read it through and let us have any comments or amendments. We can then adjust the English article accordingly. If he has a more detailed set of rules anywhere; it would be great to publish them online so they can be cited. If not, at least send us a copy. Second, I asked John McLeod to cast his eye over them. This has resulted in a number of questions from both of us:

  1. Es muß Farbe bekannt and drübergestochen werden imply that you have to follow suit and overtake if you can, either with a higher card of the led suit or with a trump. And if an opponent has played a trump, you must overtrump it. Questions that arise:
    1. Do do you still have to head the trick (stechen) if your opponent is already winning it?
    2. If you cannot head the trick, can you throw any card?
    3. If you cannot head the trick, must you play a card of the same suit if you can?
    4. If the led card has been trumped and you cannot overtrump, must you play a lower trump?
  2. A Rufen and a Treiben are worth 1 stake (Einsatz). Klar.
    1. Is a Neidspiel worth 1 as well?
    2. If the soloist (Alleinspieler) wins a Treiben, does he receive 1 stake from each of the three defenders?
    3. Can a Durch be won by a team of two players and also by a Soloist?
    4. If a Durch is won by a team, does each of the 2 defenders pay one winner 6 stakes?
    5. If a Durch is won by a soloist, does each of the 3 defenders pay the soloist 6 stakes?
    6. Can a Durch be won 'silent' (still) or must it always be announced to count?
    7. If so, what is the difference in payments?

It would be good to invite Christian Daglinger to clarify these points. His native game is attracting positive international interest! Bermicourt (talk) 12:32, 8 July 2020 (UTC)