Contents

Plurals of majesty:Edit

I changed the word "fact" to "hypothesis" in the statement that plurals of majesty only appear in late Hebrew. They may only have become common in late Hebrew, but they do appear occasionally in biblical Hebrew- i.e. "Behemoth" would mean "animals," but as it is used in the Book of Job, it refers to a single animal of immense size.

ElahEdit

Judging by the sources stated at Elah, that name should be included on this page. I know practically no Hebrew and so cannot judge whether it should be included under El or Elohim, or as a separate section. Please would someone merge the info here. The entry at that page should then be linked to sourced information here, and the refs removed since that is a disambiguation page. - Fayenatic (talk) 17:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

EloahEdit

Speaking of Zion as a Goddess, the bride of Christ Joseph:

"related who a Goddess from out besides mine to Yahweh? and who is a refuge but my Elohey ours?"
Psalm 18:31 (18:32) כי מי אלוה מבלעדי יהוה ומי צור זולתי אלהינו׃

Eloah is feminine, Goddess, but both the Article misquotes the number of Usages, used 59 Times in the Westminster Leningrad Codex, but the Aramaic Targums and Greek LXX and Latin Vulgate, made from the Aramaic, all use Masculine Nouns in their mistranslations, and

Deuteronomy 32:15 וישמן ישרון ויבעט שמנת עבית כשית ויטש אלוה עשהו וינבל צור ישעתו׃
2 Chronicles 32:15 ועתה אל־ישיא אתכם חזקיהו ואל־יסית אתכם כזאת ואל־תאמינו לו כי־לא יוכל כל־אלוה כל־גוי וממלכה להציל עמו מידי ומיד אבותי אף כי א‍להיכם לא־יצילו אתכם מידי׃
Nehemiah 9:17 וימאנו לשמע ולא־זכרו נפלאתיך אשר עשית עמהם ויקשו את־ערפם ויתנו־ראש לשוב לעבדתם במרים ואתה אלוה סליחות חנון ורחום ארך־אפים ורב־ וחסד כ (חסד ק) ולא עזבתם׃
[Other untranslated Hebrew examples commented out below:]

2001:558:6014:31:1174:DC89:7267:6449 (talk) 16:12, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

To preserve readability, I've commented out most of the very long list of untranslated Hebrew above. It's still available by clicking "edit section". — LlywelynII 01:30, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh citation requestsEdit

I want to clarify exactly why I have felt it so important to mark two sections of this section as needing citation. In the first instance the article makes the strong claim that "usually" such and such but without any real grounds for saying this. Given the fact that there are some significant theological differences between [religious] traditions [...] over this issue it becomes important for NPOV to be sure of what we are saying and why. In the second instances the very strong statement says that "better renderings might be" without saying who considers them better or why. In the interests of accuracy, good citation and NPOV I have flagged these for editorial action. --Lord Matt (talk) 08:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC) [edited by author to remove irrelevant points --Lord Matt (talk) 11:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)]

*Adonai*Edit

The vowels only respresent the hebrew name of HaShem when read backwards, *as if it were in hebrew* I A O A.

Ih-Ah-Oh-(Omitted - Hebrew is a phonetic language, regardless of how it is spelled/Transliterated in English, the phonetic must remain constant and perpetual, this is the nature of the Pheonician/Hebrew language - cross referrence Sefer Yetzirah)

This should be clarified in the main article.

As the vowel order in the english - Adonai - To not represent the vowels of Adonai, moreover, the Nikkud depicted in the Double Yiddish Yod - which is spoken as Adonai - does not actually translate to *adonai* the word depicted in the article (similar to the man named Adoni-ah (written as Aleph,Dalet,Nun,Yod,Heh,Vav) in I Kings(which is not represented by the Yiddish double yod (with Nikkud - spoken "Adonai").

The name: ADONAI - meaning Lord differs from that represented in text containing the prayers/invocations of HaShem(Heh, Shin-Mem sofit). So this is very confusing as labled in the main article, as Adonai is (Alev, Dalet, Nun, Yod), each of those containing their own Nikkud, and as such the name "Aleph,Dalet,Nun,Yod" bears little resemblence to the actual name of God, other than being attributed by definition "Lord".

When the Adonai referred to that is HaShem (again two words, as stated above, and should be represented to accord as such in English Transliteration for clarities sake as Two seperate words, if not divided by more than a capital letter.) HaShem appropriate when referred to as Adonai, again is represented in Hebrew by the Yiddish Double Yod, with appropriate nikkud for the two vowels (after Yod, and after Waw/Vav - the Heh/Ha in itself is fairly well self evident in prononciation.

This should be clarified by a more one with greater patience and understanding than I. [Special:Contributions/65.102.21.197|65.102.21.197]] (talk) 11:28, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Source comparison: prayers used in service, in addition to the Torah, Kethuvim, crossreferenced the spoken/verbally invoked - and that which is read from. In otherwords the information in the main article is definately misleading, unless one is unawares of context/syntax, In addition the actually Spelling of that which is Spoken. Peruse carefully writing composition is not my strong suite. 65.102.21.197 (talk) 11:28, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Post Script/Afterthough/Clarity.

The name mentioned from Kings contains the root "Adonai" (Adoniyah in Kings is not a representation of the name respresented by the (Heh-Shin-Mem Sofit (HaShem), but is a name of the person who is obviously tied to the Ruler/King/Lord (connected with David as well as HaShem, (Aleph-Dalet-Nun-Yod & Hah-Waw (a name of God)) 65.102.21.197 (talk) 13:39, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

"Adonai"(אֲדוֹנָי) translates into the English as "lord of me" i.e. "my lord", which derives from the word "Adon"(אָדוֹן), meaning "lord".AurumSpiral1235813 (talk) 21:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Transliteration of the Tetragrammaton?Edit

Is is YHVH or YHWH? It appears with both spellings in the first section without discussion of the difference - this should be clarified. Hugetim (talk) 18:07, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Whoops, I see the discussion now. I will standardize the use of YHVH throughout the appropriate sections since that seems to be the predominant version. Hugetim (talk) 18:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
On the contrary, the Biblical Hebrew page lists the relevant letter as 'waw,' so I'm going with W instead of V (which seems to be the modern way to pronounce the letter). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hugetim (talkcontribs) 18:26, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Posterity; the letter as VAV is a modern re-interpretation, however in biblical times the letter was a WAW. The people who most commonly use the tetragammaton in any context outside of strictly written work are 'hebrew-israelites' and 'messianic jews', both organizations being compromised in their education due to strong preconceived biases and general ignorance due to the extreme lack of scholarly research, and so they use the phonetic 'YHWH' because that is how the name would have been used by the kohen gadol during the temple era and before, if the name was even in use before then. Therefore they see this interpretation as the most correct. Side note; typically people who are educated refrain from using phonetics or interpretations of the tetragrammaton as it is considered an extreme sign of disrespect to the ethnic religions of all hebrew peoples, as it was only permitted to be used by the kohen gadol during the holiest day of the year on the foundation of the holy temples. As such, there is no competition to the mis-used representation of 'YHWH' as the default, which is compounded by the overwhelming use of 'YHWH' in both spoken and written works by the previously mentioned groups, even though there is no known correct pronunciation of this name. Cakiva (talk) 10:41, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Original Qere-Kativ as Sh'ma rather than AdonaiEdit

I have heard some remarks that the original Qere-Kativ substitution for the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton may have been Sh'ma (in the Aramaic meaning of His Name rather than the usual Hebrew meaning, given that Aramaic was prevalent when the original ban on speaking the Name in public began. This would explain the most common set of vowels in the Aleppo, WLC, and Cairo codices, which are grammatically improper because they lack a vowel for the first hey in the Name. If the original substituted pronunciation were Sh'ma, the vowels agree and the missing vowel is explained. However, all of my sources on this are anecdotal. Is anyone aware of sources which support or refute this view? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.99.25.2 (talk) 06:24, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Work neededEdit

This article looks like a stomach-churning essay type of writing. As time allows, I'll clean it up, removing no cited facts or significant facts. Please comment here on the talk page with any input or with other issues. Otherwise, what are these talk pages meant to do for us?Djathinkimacowboy(yell) 02:54, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

This article reads like a religious tract, not an objective presentation of data, concepts or issues.
Phrases such as the one true God used in "Elah is used to describe both pagan gods and the one true God." need to be restated in ways that don't make them sound so preachy, for example, by italicizing the debatable allegations of oneness and trueness (and removing the capital letter from "God", which doesn't make sense in this phrase, as capitalized "God" is a proper name and [other than in such proselytizing statements] doesn't take the definite article), or by stating it in such a way that it is clear that such a belief/statement is related specifically both to the context from which it was drawn and to the article in which it appears.--76.184.143.178 (talk) 15:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Agreed, but I can feel the arguments coming even now. You need to find a better way to restate your ideas: this is an article with a solely religious basis. As I say, I agree with all your points. But I've run into these battles in the past on other articles. We are not likely to win....Djathinkimacowboy(yell) 15:55, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
It's also extremely repetitive.Costesseyboy (talk) 00:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

─────────────────────────On Elohim's likelihood as Plural usage by function, not fun, and noting that it solves 2 creations inconsistency problem as well as "Nod" and the "other people" lacking origin in any possible way other than with plural Elohim.

I would point out that it is highly likely the Hebrews originally believed in polytheism. That's how religion is, going from complex to simpler. This is more the nature of "his people", as each god had his or her own people, and they had their god. THis was true with greeks and romans as well. The Hebrews did indeed believe they were the people of the Head god-that of thunder of course, YHWH. What I wanted to mention is that the plural form of Elohim is very unlikely just an accidental exception to the rules of the language-but of course was used as a qualifer for when not just YHWH but other gods were involved. Only the obvious nature of "Elohim" (Plural at times by neeed) explains the problems monotheism has with Genesis. That is: There WERE two creations. The first is by elohim (plural-all the gods created WITH YHWH), so that should be indicated as plural, and it implies YHWH was involved, but only a part, with the other gods in creating "everything" that genesis defines that as ("Universe" is a stretch). Then the 2nd creation, is different because it IS different. That one is JUST YHWH creating a special place for JUST his people to protect them from the less friendly world. This is why the sequences don't match and why he can jump straight to man (ie day 6 if it were redundant, yet is obviously not, redundancy is of the least likelihood considering how drastically different they are. But if you picture the creation of "stuff" (matter) and then of YHWH's Garden Project by those merits, chapter 2 reads very smoothly with no confusion-everything fitting into the puzzle. Pretending YHWH just appeared as the first monotheism is much harder idea to swallow. Especially when the Hebrew creation is clearly modeled after it's neighbor, Egypt. They too had a god that created through sound, and made the first man from dirt/clay, etc.... and they too like everyone else had polytheism. This is why different connotations are used for plants-those in the garden of a "garden" nature the 1st creation plants not, more wild, self sustaining. Lastly, this also explains when god banished Cain, Cain went to "Nod" and found "the other people". WHere did they come from? There are no rational answers until you pair it and the 2 creations the multiple implications of "godS" in the Torah & bible, and the obvious nature of gods=they reflect ignorance: The more we don't know, the more gods we had. The more we know, the less we need any. Not willing to do the research, but I know some has been done on the topic of the Elohim with this being the outcome that fits the best and most logical for what is known about the ancient Hebrews and the remnants of the culture today. Here's a reference that reveals just "too many" parallels between Egyptian Creation and Hebrew Creation. It should also be noted that in egyptian, the primary god tends to create themself, different than the brilliant idea of "uncreated creator", and first makes other gods-to help him create, so perhaps both START as monotheisms, but by the time man is created, it's already polytheism. Also, of interest perhaps to humanists: The Egyptian Creator (well, their gods argue over who did what-kind of hilarious, I think it was Ra) is bi-sexual, such to take on both roles and I believe gives birth to the other first gods, even though he is a "he". I would say the christian bible is well behind the egyptian stories that preceded it, at least on the issue of gender equality, and apparently innate sexual nature recognition....the Egyptian Gods were not trying to crawl in bed with people-how very cool lol. 1 98.127.96.62 (talk) 12:30, 20 February 2013 (UTC)Brendan Murphy98.127.96.62

No W in HebrewEdit

The Hebrew letters are Yodh, He (letter) and Waw (letter). Editor2020 (talk) 00:18, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

The Hebrew letter is Vav now. When it was waw, it was a /w/. — LlywelynII 08:13, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Adonai appears twiceEdit

"Adonai" is listed under both "The Tetragrammaton" and "Other names and titles of God". Can the content from the "Other..." section be merged into the "Tetragrammaton" section? — Twas Now ( talkcontribse-mail ) 23:17, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. — LlywelynII 08:12, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Influence of names in daily Jewish speechEdit

I think there should be a section explaining how the names of God in Judaism influenced the speech among Jewish people. Yah is a vocative particle in Arabic and I don't think Arabic-speaking Jewish people would utter that specific name. (Or maybe I'm wrong.) Komitsuki (talk) 15:50, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

JehovahEdit

I deleted the section on Jehovah - this name is never used by Jews or in Jewish writings. PiCo (talk) 06:47, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

According to the Jehovah article, it's used in Karaite Judaism. StAnselm (talk) 07:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I find that a bit hard to believe. The spelling with a letter J and a letter V is German, where the J represents the sound we use Y for in English and the V is pronounced as a W sound - so Jehovah pronounced the English way is a mispronunciation of the German. The German word in turn, I believe, is an attempt to fill in the vowels of YHWH (JHVH in German). Neither has any connection with Judaism, whether Karaite or other. I think, if we want to ask someone (I'm no expert), then user AnonMoos would be the one - he seems very knowledgeable. He hangs out a lot in the article YHWH. PiCo (talk) 07:15, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

"gutteral throat-clearing"Edit

Since this note is included on the page to be "more accurate", we may as well avoid this folk-y "gutteral throat-clearing" and give the exact sound so people can look it up and hear it for themselves. I assume this is either the [glottal stop] or the [voiced pharyngeal fricative]. Can anyone confirm it? Flipping Mackerel (talk) 01:54, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Polytheists? Really?Edit

How does one get Polytheism from the imperatives, " “I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face." and "“YOU must not fear other gods, and YOU must not bow down to them nor serve them nor sacrifice to them"? (Exodus 20:2,3;2 Kings 17:35) Maxximiliann (talk) 00:29, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Posterity edit, because it makes reference to there being other gods that can be worshiped, and through this recognition it can be seen that they acknowledged other gods, which seems to be enough Cakiva (talk) 10:45, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

7 names of godEdit

The sections on writing names of deity and the 7 names of god contain errors (8 names listed not 7), redundancies, and contradictions. These paragraphs should be merged and cleaned up.Serkul (talk) 02:33, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Correction of all 7 namesEdit

There are still 8 names listed, and even the 7 names are not the correct ones. According to Maimonides (Mishna Torah, Yesode HaTorah §6:2):

ושבעה שמות הן--השם הנכתב יוד הא ואו הא והוא השם המפורש, או הנכתב אלף דאל נון יוד, ואל, ואלוה, ואלוהים, ואהיה, ושדיי, וצבאות. כל המוחק אפילו אות אחת משבעה שמות אלו, לוקה.

There are seven names: the Name written yod he vav he, and this the shem hamforash, [the name] written aleph daled nun yod, "El", "Eloah", "Elohim", "Ehyeh", "Shaddai", and "Tzeva'oth". One who erases even one letter of these seven names is whipped. (Translation mine.)

Accordingly, the page should be updated properly. MannyWolfe (talk) 07:52, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

DubiousEdit

Eloah doesn't "appear to be a singular feminine" (this would be Eloha), it's simply a singular of Elohim, the "a" being a detail of pronunciation before a pharyngeal or glottal consonant (cf. Arabic 3inda, which to a Westerner may sound like "aynda"). I don't have good sources ready at hand, though. 46.186.34.99 (talk) 22:10, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. According to at least one online dictionary (http://www.morfix.co.il/%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%94), it's masculine. I'm going to remove "feminine". 71.232.17.196 (talk) 16:01, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

TitleEdit

If this article was called Names of God in the Hebrew Bible then we could more easily include material that relates to the widely held academic view that the names of God used often reflect the source of the material i.e. P and J in the Documentary Hypothesis or supplementary theories. There is also considerable evidence that the names of God reflect the polytheistic origins of the various HB texts. These views are held by Jewish writers and academics as well as non Jewish writers. This article restricts itself by largely reflecting religious views. I doubt that a change of title will be accepted, so I would like to add an additional section that describes the widely held views that relate to the names of god reflecting sources of Biblical texts, and a section on names of god reflecting polytheistic origins of what is now JudaismBaal is my Lord and Master 16:50, 5 November 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theredheifer (talkcontribs)

OR in LeadEdit

This sentence is original research, based on the source. El (god), Elohim (god, singular and plural form, depending on the context), El Shaddai (god almighty), Adonai (master), Elyon (highest) and Avinu (our father) are regarded by many religious Jews not as names, but as epithets or titles highlighting different aspects and 'roles' of God.[1] The RS actually states that the two names of God YHWH/Adonai and Elohim are related to the sources J and E. It is due to Rabbinic tradition that they are considered to denote different aspects of God. The RS makes no reference to the beliefs of individual Jews, or to the other names of God. I will re write to reflect what the RS actually states.Baal is my Lord and Master 08:34, 7 November 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theredheifer (talkcontribs)

Further readingEdit

is almost always a bad idea since Wikipedia (by design) is not a place where we have experts curating such things. Kindly reinclude these sources as they are used to support points in the text of the article:

  • Harris Laird, Archer, Gleason Jr. and Waltke, Bruce K. (eds.) Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, 2 vol., Moody Press, Chicago, 1980.
  • Hoffman, Joel M. In the Beginning: A Short History of the Hebrew Language, NYU Press (2004). ISBN 0-8147-3690-4.
  • Joffe, Laura, "The Elohistic Pslater: What, How and Why?", Scandinavian Journal of the Old Testament, vol 15-1, pp. 142–169 Taylor & Francis AS, part of the Taylor & Francis Group., June 2001.
  • Kearney, Richard, "The God Who May be: A Hermeneutics of Religion", Modern Theology, January 2002, vol. 18, no. 1, pp. 75–85(11)
  • Kretzmann, Paul E., Popular Commentary of the Bible, The Old Testament, Vol. 1. Concordia Publishing House, St. Louis, Mo. 1923.
  • Shaller, John, The Hidden God, The Wauwatosa Theology, vol. 2, pp. 169–187, Northwestern Publishing House, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 1997.
  • Stern, David. Jewish New Testament Commentary, Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc., Clarkville, Maryland, 1996.
  • Strong, James, The Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Abingdon-Cokesbury Press, New York and Nashville, 1890.
  • Swart, Jacobus G. The Book of Sacred Names, Sangreal Sodality Press, Johannesburg, 2011. ISBN 978-0-620-50702-8
  • Tov, E., "Copying a Biblical Scroll", Journal of Religious History, vol. 26, no. 2, pp. 189–209(21), Blackwell Publishing, June 2001
  • Vriezen, Th. C., The Religion of Ancient Israel, The Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1967.

 — LlywelynII 01:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Sources for future article expansionEdit

See above. Also, these texts were listed in the #Bibliography section

  • Albright, W.F. (1935), "The Names Shaddai and Abram", Journal of Biblical Literature, No. 54, pp. 173–210.
  • Driver, S.R. (1885), "Recent Theories on the Origin and Nature of the Tetragrammaton", Studia Biblica, Vol. I, Oxford.
  • Mansoor, Menahem (1983), The Dead Sea Scrolls, Grand Rapids: Baker.

but were entirely unused by the article itself. Kindly reinclude them as they are used to support points in the text of the article. — LlywelynII 01:46, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:ERAEdit

This edit established the usage of the page as BC/AD which was changed without discussion by an anonymous editor. I can see how BCE/CE would be sensible for a Judeocentric article but afaict there's no actual policy on that so I'll restore the original usage pending a new consensus here. — LlywelynII 03:24, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Jewish Publication SocietyEdit

I removed this from the #YHWH section

The Jewish Publication Society translation of 1917, in online versions, uses YHWH once at Exodus 6:3.

since it seems like a completely non-WP:NOTABLE point. The KJV has had profound importance in English religion and might merit mention of its translations but is there anything particularly important about this one? (If so, that's fine but kindly include mention of its importance and link to its article should you reïnclude it.) — LlywelynII 06:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, as Jews typically do not write the phonetics or transliterations of the tetragrammaton out of respect, unless it's a secular piece that simply needs to use it for reference. By having this interpretation of the tetragrammaton included in a Jewish-printed religious context, it provides clarity that this term has been used by at least some Jews. Cakiva (talk) 10:49, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

AdonaiEdit

If there were a single valid pronunciation, it'd be worth including that since someone seeing it for the first time might come up with some variants. Since the OED lists no less than 7 major variants, though, I've removed the (single, unsourced, American variant) pronunciation that was previously given. Anything an English-speaking reader would come up with on their own is already acceptable and we can leave it for Wiktionary to laundry list the others. — LlywelynII 07:22, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

BaalEdit

I like that it's here and includes commentary but surely it's one of the uncommon names as well. Similarly, Ishi and El Roi seem to just be mentioned in single biblical verses. Are they really in common use? — LlywelynII 08:27, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

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Ruth 2:4Edit

I have reverted and restored (for the time being) the material removed by @Garry SF: (diff), making the claim that Ruth 2:4 showed the tetragrammaton being vocalised (rather than substituted) in everyday greeting, at least as of the time the book was written.

From his edit summary, I infer that Garry's objection is that (i) since it is only the written YHWH that appears in the Hebrew, we cannot be certain as meaning to indicate that Boaz actually pronounced the tetragrammaton -- perhaps the author meant that Boaz would actually have said "Adonai", but merely recorded it as YWHW; and also (ii) that, per WP:PSTS, an inference like this should not be made on the basis of a primary sources alone, but rather we should be citing how such a proposition has been discussed and analysed by secondary sources.

I am sure (at least, I am hoping) that there are people on this page better placed to take this forward than I am, both in terms of knowledge, and access to sources. But a quick search on Google Books suggest that (at least some) Jewish sources do interpret that Boaz was to have been understood to have actually vocalised the name. So for example,

  • Louis Ginzburg at al (1909), Legends of the Jews, notes on Vols 3 and 4, p191, certainly seems to assume this, and that such use continued in greeting for some time (discussing a Midrash as to why this should have been allowed).
  • Étan Levine (1973), The Aramaic Version of Ruth, p68 & 69 -- see footnotes 4.1 to 4.4

also

  • Steven Ortlepp (2011), Pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton: A Historico-Linguistic Approach, p74, notes that Boaz's use is picked up in the Mishnah at Berakoth 9:5, that one should "greet one's fellow man with the Name".

the same line in the Mishnah is also cited by

  • Robert J. Wilkinson (2015), Tetragrammaton: Western Christians and the Hebrew Name of God, p180 reviewing early Rabbinic-period usage.

I think these all broadly support the thesis, even if they are not quite as direct as what we have written, or what is often written on websites:

  • "Early in Israelite history few if any had difficulties in saying the name of God-- YHWH-- as evidenced in direct speech in narratives (cf. Ruth 2:4)." [1]
  • "At one time, “Yahweh be with you” was an everyday greeting (as in Ruth 2:4)" [2].

The fact that the usage in Ruth 2:4 does come up on websites means I think it is something it is appropriate for WP to raise and analyse (either here or at Tetragrammaton). But I agree it would be good to find better scholarly sources; which might lead to a more nuanced view, or a more extended discussion of how pronounciation of the Name fell out of use. Jheald (talk) 17:25, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

The 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia article "Names of God" is one text that does cite Ruth 2:4 directly for the previous regular use of the name of God, if we can still accept it as reliable as a source:

It became the custom at an early period to use the name of God in personal greetings, as "The Lord be with thee," or "The Lord bless thee" (Ruth ii. 4; Ber. ix. 1; comp. Mak. 23a). The Greek inquisition in Judea prohibited the utterance of God's name, but when the Hasmoneans became victorious they decreed that the Name should be mentioned even in notes and documents. The formula began: "On . . . in the year of the high priest Johanan, the servant of the Most High God." The sages, however, opposed this innovation, as they thought the Name would be defiled when the notes were canceled and thrown away as useless. Consequently on the third day of Tishri following, the record says, the Rabbis forbade the mention of God's name in documents (Meg. Ta'anit; R. H. 18b).

It also makes the interesting note that the Name was regularly previously used

in the common formula of an oath, "ḥai Yhwh" (= "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).

The current Britannica article "Yahweh" also notes that the name was formerly widely used (though without citing Ruth):

After the Babylonian Exile (6th century bce), and especially from the 3rd century bce on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal rather than merely local religion, the more common noun Elohim, meaning “God,” tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel’s God over all others. At the same time, the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual by the Hebrew word Adonai (“My Lord”), which was translated as Kyrios (“Lord”) in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Jheald (talk) 17:44, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

As far as I know (though I cannot cite any sources at the moment), the understanding within Judaism is that the Tetragrammaton was never in common usage, except in the Temple. The common pronunciation was then, as today, "Adonai". This would be true throughout the Bible, unless perhaps when the speaker is directly addressing God. The citation from Ruth is unpersuasive; nowadays, even Adonai is not used except during prayers. The Talmud is referring to Boaz's using Adonai in greeting. I would suggest that the edit removing that comment was, indeed, correct. MannyWolfe (talk) 07:31, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

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  • Checked, and one reverted to its original source, which is still live. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:27, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

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Checked. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:29, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

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Checked. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:30, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Abir and AdirEdit

The article contained the word 'Adir' as a name for the Hebrew god and translated it as 'mighty one'. Though 'Adir' relates to strength, it doesn't mean 'mighty one' and it isn't used as a title of the Hebrew god. I originally replaced it with the with 'Abir', which does translate as 'mighty one' and is used as a name of the Hebrew god.

When I returned to this page, 'Adir' was back with an edit note saying, 'Adir, also. Don't necessarily assume what's here is wrong.' I didn't assume it was wrong, I looked up the word and found that it doesn't mean what the article said it did, and that it isn't used as a title for the Hebrew god. It's applied to kings, gods other than Yahweh, and only a handful of times as a description of Yahweh not a title. See H117 - 'addiyr - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV).--Jcvamp (talk) 18:23, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Please just leave it. The line between names and descriptors is not necessarily a clear, bright one. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:28, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
...and please keep in mind, the title of the page is Names of God in Judaism, not Names of God in the Bible. There is use of it in later writings. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:30, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
I didn't claim the article was Name of God in the Bible, the link you provided was to Blue Letter BIBLE using the The Westminster Leningrad Codex, which is in Hebrew, but which still outlines the usage in English. I linked to Blue Letter Bible using the King James Version, which is in English, to further demonstrate the way that context in which the word is used.
My criteria for removing the link were: 1, it had the wrong definition, 2, it was unreferenced, and 3, the definition it gave fit a similar word, 'abir', for which I could provide an adequate reference (on Blue Letter Bible, it actually says, 'strong, mighty - used only to describe God' and 'the Strong - old name for God (poetic)' and shows the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon entry that also says, 'used of God'). In light of these facts, I assumed that it had been a typographical error.
As it stands, 'adir' still has the wrong definition in the article, the reference you provided to Blue Letter Bible doesn't substantiate that it's is applied to God in any way, and it uses the WLC text is Hebrew, so there are aren't even verses from which one might infer that the term is applied to God. You've provided a citation that proves that 'adir' is in the Bible (though transliterated with a different spelling) and means 'mighty'. That's it.
If the term is used in later writings as a title of the god of Israel, why don't you add a citation that demonstrates that? The fact that the descriptors aren't necessarily clear should mean that we are more diligent when it comes to finding good citations. Any citation added to an article on Wikipedia should be a credible source substantiating the information in the article.
I'm not going to edit the page and risk starting an editing war, but I stand by my reasons for removing the term.--Jcvamp (talk) 20:38, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
I recognise that you're editing the page in good faith too, I'm sorry if my response comes across as acerbic.--Jcvamp (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Fair enough. I do have a better citation, from the holiday siddur or machzor. But I need to go home so that I can actually create a proper citation from a published text instead of just doing it off the top of my head. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:09, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Sounds good. Cheers.--Jcvamp (talk) 00:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Add a section for the abbreviation יְיָ found in prayer books?Edit

I think it would be great to include an explanation for why יְיָ is used in place of יהוה. That term is found in many written Hebrew prayers and blessings, but I do not see any explanation for it on Wikipedia. As I understand, יְיָ is based on a Kabbalistic symbol for God’s name that consists of two yuds with a sideways vav above them. The numerical sum of those three letters is 26, which is the same as God’s name (יהוה). Printers had trouble representing the sidewise vav. The symbol was thus simplified into the two yuds alone. (Source: https://www.aish.com/atr/Two-Yuds-for-Name-of-God.html) It would be great to have a primary source on this, or at least scholarly sources to back it up. And I'd appreciate an explanation on why the vowels Shva and Kamatz are used under each respective yud. I have been unable to find an explanation for those particular vowels. DAK4Blizzard (talk) 18:49, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

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