Talk:Germany

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Germany is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 7, 2007.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 12, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
November 29, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
January 9, 2007Featured article candidatePromoted
June 13, 2011Featured article reviewKept
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on October 3, 2009, and October 3, 2010.
Current status: Featured article

Southern borderEdit

The physiogeographical borders of Germany are formed by the Baltic and North seas in the north, and the Alps, Lake Constance, and the High Rhine, and not just the Alps, in the south. The famousness of a lake is no criterion as to whether it should be mentioned or not, if there were a Rainbow Country the southern border of which would be formed by tiny Elves' Water which noone knew, this would have to be mentioned as well.TheCarlos1975 (talk) 01:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

supported, since it affects about one half of the the southern border, so it is not a neglectable part.--Nillurcheier (talk) 08:22, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
This was already discussed at Talk:Germany/Archive 24#Lead and failed to get consensus. I agree with the opposing arguments given there, and I don't find the present argument about rainbows and elves convincing. It's not necessary to describe the entire border in the lead paragraph; Germany lies latitudinally between the equator and the North Pole, between the Mediterranean and the Arctic, and between the Alps and the North Sea. These are major geographical features that readers are familiar with. The same can't be said about Lake Constance and the High Rhine. The lead is meant to be a general overview and summary of the rest of the article, and the degree of specificity is an editorial judgement. I find the current version to be a reasonable balance. --IamNotU (talk) 11:12, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
No your arguments are not convincing, how about also just saying Baltic Sea instead of Baltic and North sea because the Baltic coast is much longer. Your Alps only would only be logical if the text said "between Baltic Sea and Alps", but if it says Baltic and North sea then it's gonna have to be Alps, Lake Constance and the High Rhine in the south as well. The two more words in the lede are not too much info and an encyclopedia is also there to give the readers info they didn't know before and not just confirm what they already know. Luxembourg also lies between the North Sea and the Alps and this is just a non-info. So the question is indeed, if Luxembourg was Rainbow Country, bounded by Elves' Water in the south, would you still say it lies between North Sea and Alps just because the reader is more likely to know the Alps than Elves' Water. Like Luxembourg, Baden-Württemberg doesn't touch the Alps.TheCarlos1975 (talk) 14:04, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
There's no requirement that just because we mention two seas in the north we must mention three features in the south. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:58, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
Only the Lake Constance/High Rhine sentence is correct, the Alps only one is not. Luxembourg also lies between North Sea and Alps and that's a non-info. Not mentioning Lake Constance and High Rhine is withholding knowledge from the readers through assuming their non-ability to cope with two physiogeographical features they might not have heard about before, while even ignoring the fact that Lake Constance is one of the most well-known lakes in Europe and the Rhine one of the most well-known rivers of the world.TheCarlos1975 (talk) 13:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
I only can re-iterate my last sentence from the last fruitless discussion with this man on a mission: Not even in Schweiz the Bodensee is mentioned as the northern border, why should it be mentioned here, where it's far less important? I fail to see the importance of this lake for this. Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 14:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Bad argument. One doesn't even know from where to where the northern border of Switzerland runs, and even if one knew it, it couldn't be described through physiogeographical features as easily as the German southern border. See geography of Switzerland.TheCarlos1975 (talk) 15:27, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2020Edit

There is a typo in the 'economy' section of the article. Where it reads, "The In 2018 Germany ranked fourth globally in terms of number of science and engineering research papers published," it should read, "In 2018, [...]" PhosphoricPanda (talk) 18:17, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

  Done Thanks for pointing this out. RudolfRed (talk) 19:08, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

FormationEdit

Hi, the "Formation" section of Germany should be as follows:

Margraviate of Brandenburg (1157)

Union with Brandenburg (1618–1701)

Kingdom of Prussia (1701–1918)

- German Empire (1871–1918)

Weimar Republic (1918–1933)

Nazi Germany (1933–1945)

West and East Germany (1949)

Reunification (1990)

If you are able to edit, please change it to this. Alexmuller102 (talk) 11:27, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

I think the current version is sufficient. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:55, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2020Edit

67.20.29.249 (talk) 15:29, 13 September 2020 (UTC) Tameshia

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --IamNotU (talk) 15:43, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2020Edit

<Wikipedia 'Sir Peter Paul Rubens' page

Please remove Peter Paul Rubens from the Art & Design subsection of the culture section in the Germany page, as he was not German but Flemish. Rory Scullion-Croppies98 (talk) 15:02, 4 October 2020 (UTC) Croppies98 (talk) 15:02, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Done. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:36, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Continuous deletion of information in infoboxEdit

User Nikkimaria often reverts edits in which information is added to the infobox not only made by me but also by other users (see version history). Now, even the infobox in the Simple English Wiki contains more information. His arguments are that this is "excessive detail" and that "Just because a parameter exists, doesn't mean it must be used [...]". In my opinion, these arguments are not valid since an infobox should contain all known relevant information about its article and it doesn't matter if it's detailed. I'd even say that the opposite is true: I think it's good if an infobox is detailed as long as it remains clear and well structured and is not redundant. There's surely a reason you can put these parameters in infoboxes. And other articles about countries also contain this information in their infobox, so that's the common consensus.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 12:40, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I use she/her pronouns, by the way. This argument is not consistent with our guidelines: MOS:IBX notes the following: "The less information [the infobox] contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. Of necessity, some infoboxes contain more than just a few fields; however, wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content." It further states that "Whether to include an infobox, which infobox to include, and which parts of the infobox to use, is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article" - in other words, even if every other country used these parameters (and they don't), consensus would be needed for them here. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:43, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

1) The infobox contained not a single redundant or unnecessary information. Every information was unique and presented in the shortest form possible.

2) The consensus in this article was to include this information. It has been there for a long time until you removed some information without reaching a consensus on the talk page. Several users tried to undo your edits without success because you reverted it back. That's not what I'd call a consensus.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 13:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I do not agree that all of the extended content you want to add is necessary. What leads you to believe that it is? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:09, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Really? This article has more than 10K views per day. Many Wikipedia readers want to access as much information as possible as short as possible when they read an article.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 13:14, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Number of pageviews is not really an argument to include particular parameters; there is no evidence, for example, that those viewers consider electricity information a key fact. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Among these many users, there will be some who want to know. The reason for this is irrelevant (maybe you want to visit Germany and want to know whether your device works there). You cannot infer so many others from yourself. As long as we neither know whether there are people who want to know or whether they don't want to know, we should leave the information in there. Can't believe I have to explain that.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 13:29, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

That's not the approach we should be taking - for the majority of readers this would not be considered a key fact. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

That's not really an argument and can apply for any country and any parameter. According to this logic, we could question every parameter and infoboxes in general. Where is the limit at which it becomes "unnecessary"? This is 100 % subjective which is why we should give all information.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 13:46, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

It being subjective does not require us to just include every possible entry; that's why we're meant to discuss. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:58, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
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