Confucius was a Philosophy and religion good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
March 10, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed

Contents

Article NameEdit

The article should be renamed K'ung Fu Tzu with a redirect from Confucious. Otherwise we would be perpetuating European colonialism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.63.194.124 (talk) 22:47, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Illegitimate BirthEdit

The Records of the Grand Historian Shiji flatly state that Confucius was born as a result of a "wild union" between Shu Lianghe and a woman surnamed Yan. The Shiji makes absolutely no mention of a marriage, ceremonially defective or otherwise.  

The Shiji's author, Sima Qian, remains famous after more than 2000 years for calling a spade a spade, rather than a metaphorical digging implement. Sima Qian clearly revered Confucius, but did not allow his feelings to interfere with the factual account based on the best evidence he found. Earlier edits mentioning a "marriage" that was deficient under traditional notions of ceremony (li) may be due to a misreading of the cited Chinese source. In fact, only the words rendered in blue are the actual Shiji - those in purple are (much) later commentaries.

Other editors have - correctly - pointed out that the Shiji was written hundreds of years after Confucius own time. There are, of course, countless (later) hagiographic versions of Confucius' birth, but it would be slipshod to attribute these accounts to Sima Qian himself. If any editor could locate and include a sampling of those alternative accounts (preferably with approximate dates), it would help balance the account.

Psychologically, the stigma of illegitimate birth makes perfect sense of a man whose life was spent considering deep issues of ritual propriety and how human relations should be regulated. WikiFlier (talk) 07:55, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Age at DeathEdit

Inconsistency. Footnote 19 is used to corroborate the statement that his age at death was 72 or 73. Why then does it appear as 71 or 72 in the summary side bar (or whatever it's called)?

Of course, I realise that it is difficult to establish a person's exact age without exact birth and death dates, which are absent here. Surely, however, the article should strive for internal consistency in giving these estimates. POO POO

Date notation (eras) — BC/AD or BCE/CEEdit

There was a discussion, above, on the use of date notation (eras) for this article. All who spoke agreed that the MoS guideline for eras requires consistency throughout an article. The guideliine further states that there must be a good reason for changing the era notation. As with all articles there must be consensus of the article authors. Three people spoke to the issue and two of these preferred leaving the date notation as BCE/CE. Yet, inexplicably the notation was changed to BC/AD. The article had used BCE/CE notation for over a year prior to the change in May, 2006. actruly Confucius was born in (AD) There is good reason to restore BCE/CE notation in this article, IMO: the article is about a non-Christian subject in a non-Christian region of the world. As the article on Common era points out: "... most Chinese have used gōngyuán (公元) to mean AD/CE, gōngyuán can be literally translated as "public era" or "metric era." Many of the articles on Buddhism and Taoism use BCE/CE notation for dates.

In view of this, I am adding my vote for retaining the BCE/CE notation. I will restore that notation and urge that it be retained until such time as there is a consensus of authors to the contrary. Sunray 20:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The article is being proselytized.--Patchouli 23:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
How do you arrive at that conclusion?. Sunray 08:42, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

The above was merely a justification, as requested by the guideline. Fact is that there is a consensus to use BCE. One of the reasons given for the article not achieving GA status was "No consistent usage of BC/BCE." We need to respect the consensus and keep it consistent. Sunray 05:37, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't understand what BCE meant and had to look it up. Since Confucius was not Christian, I'm happy for it to be used. -- John (Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 09:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

VandalismEdit

I agree with the discussion (titled 'Vandalism?') at the top. Plus, I think that the 'Notes' section of the Confucius article has been vandalised too. I tried editing it, but the text won't appear for some reason. Could somebody throw a little light on the situation? RuthW 13:16, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


Confucius say Ari Gold.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.22.253.44 (talk) 04:34, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Failed GAEdit

The Notes are all broken. They consist of links back to the article, except in some cases where what was apparently intended to be linked to appears as a second part.

No consistent usage of BC/BCE.

Most references are to The Analects, which is not a reliable source. This is like referencing the Bible to support a claim that Jesus walked on water. --Ideogram 15:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I would like to develop a plan for further improving this article. Anyone else what to work on this? Sunray 20:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


Confucianism in ActionEdit

Can somebody explain how Confucius' philosophy describes the causes that lay behind the violence, war and chaos of his time, and any sort of practical ways he proposed to resolve or cope with these problems? And how do his ideas on this subject differ from those of the Daoists, such as Zhuangzi? Thanks. 68.181.230.101 19:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

According to Confucius, the root of the trouble was the failure of propriety in the family. Confucius felt that is roles could be properly defined acted out, the world would be well governed. This is often referred to as rectifying names. This process must begin in the home as the child learns to behave from the example of the parents. If the parent acts as a parent and teaches the child what is expected, the child will grow up normally. Children will then be able to act appropriately in society in relation to superiors, friends and spouses. The heart of this is self-restraint.

Taoists generally beleive that the root of social unrest is grasping and greed. Confucius would not have disagreed, except that Taoists tend to view human society as an arbitrary collection of rules and traditions without substance. They tend to identify Reality with the processes of change observed in nature. While Confucius advocated a kind of ritual propreity, this propriety or Li was intended as an expression of underlying logic as opposed to a set of hollow actions. Taoists often argue against instances of corruption hiding under a good appearance, butn that is not really what Confucius was advocating. Confucius was also aware of the nature of social constructs but believed that without a common frame of reference, human beings could not relate well or even survive. He also thought that social changes were not arbitrary but were either progressive or regressive in terms of human well-being. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.30.143 (talk) 23:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

this articleEdit

don't highlight so many of the words because then it gets hard to read. Ok —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.29.252 (talk) 16:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC) KATIE ROCKS♥♥♥♥


厩焚。子退朝,曰:“伤人乎?”“不。”问马。Edit

厩焚。子退朝,曰:“伤人乎?”不。问马。 should be chapter 10 verse 17 instead of 11 under the section "teachings" ASAP "不" and "否" are different writting forms of the same word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.136.44 (talk) 07:23, 28 December 2008 (UTC) 165.21.155.72 (talk) 10:36, 27 April 2008 (UTC)hongsy

BBC Reith Lectures on ConfuciousEdit

Don't know if they're of interest to anyone [1]. -- John (Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 09:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

"Confucius wing"Edit

"Confucius wing" needs to be mentioned in the Confucius#Disciples and Legacy part. -Sneaky Oviraptor18 (talk) 20:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't be confusedEdit

On the top it says don't be confused with confusion, is this a joke or is it supposed to be like that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.233.228.235 (talk) 22:53, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


Added by Hakseng: I agree with the previous poster - is there really any danger that anybody is going to confuse those two terms? If not, then why do we need the hatnote? It just looks plain silly!

@ lightsup55: I do know what a hatnote is for (although I never knew it was called that - thanks :-)). I'd also err on the side of caution, but seriously - who's going to get this mixed up? Following the logic, we'd have to add 'coiffeuse', and somebdoy better add 'confusion' to 'cold fusion' ... you never know who's forgotten his reading glasses today :-)

BTW: I'm psyched the article is semiprotected now - I remember coming here to edit the random vandalism out only to find it put back in the next day. Semiprotecting works! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hakseng (talkcontribs) 01:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Hakseng: You can request for page protection at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection (or WP:RfPP for short) and an administrator will protect it (if a valid reason is given to do so). --Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 06:20, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Lightsup55: Thanks, that's good to know! --Hakseng (talk) 03:08, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Aren't References Supposed to be traceableEdit

Why are NONE of the references traceable? Isn't the whole purpose of having a reference so that the reader can obtain or verify information? Out of the 1st 15 I randomly tried not a single one works or is locatable... Normally references could refer to other documents cited in the article, however in this case, none of the articles appear to be cited with the exception of 2? Stevenmitchell (talk) 23:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Confucius was Korean nonsenseEdit

I've heard and seen many lies about how Koreans claiming Confucius was Korean, first of all, no Korean scholars and Korean government claimed such lies, this claims were originally made up by Japanese/Taiwanese nationalists in attempt to make fun at Korean because Korean culture was deeply influenced and one of very few countries kept traditional learnings of Confucius. Even today there are dedicated schools for learning Confucianism and Korean culture heavily shows some of this elements, particularly dealing with elders in the family. Also, Korea holds some of the oldest temples and heritage sites dedicated to Confucius. However, Japanese and Taiwanese nationalists wanted to use this as Korea was claiming Confucius as "Korean" ethnicity. Which is totally nonsense because all of lies about Korean/Korea recently all have been fabricated & spread by Japanese & Taiwanese nationalists. We should this controversial claims from Japanese/Taiwanese nationalists at main article to show the wikipedia readers about the truths about these lies. --Korsentry 06:22, 26 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry (talkcontribs)

Is there any reason for this touchiness? I just found out Capt. Kirk was Canadian and you don't see me going crazy! Gingermint (talk) 03:37, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Take that back! Kirk was from Iowa, I'll not have his name dragged through maple syrup and polite rationality. 137.111.13.167 (talk) 05:10, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Date of birthEdit

I don't beleave that someone could possibly know that Confucius was born at 28th of September.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.65.212.170 (talk) 22:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Me neither. Maybe this is the in Chinese Calender, but some clarification is needed.--Tricia Takanawa (talk) 16:19, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

TranslationEdit

Would you say its proper to include an external link to a fully translated Spanish version of the Analects? @ www.confucionismo.com/analectas

Thx--Bernini2 (talk) 23:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

DescendantsEdit

It is actually quite a well-known, accepted fact among genealogists and geneticists, as is mentioned in the references, that Confucius's descendants are THE longest still extant and fully recorded line in the world.

So please don't change to "one of the oldest." Evangeline (talk) 06:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


114.233.136.109 why were my additions deleted, what's wrong with the detailed info on Con's family and a link to the modern TV series?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.233.137.226 (talk) 02:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC) 


Confucious shared a common belief with the Roman Catholic Church as he did not believe in birth control. 81.159.180.70 (talk) 02:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Needs Media sectionEdit

This article needs a Media section, there are at least two Confucius film articles here on Wikipedia. One from 1940 and the other from 2009, and a 16 episode cctv series as well which is now on dvd. --68.45.218.70 (talk) 14:48, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Needs proofreading!Edit

This article is full of grammatical mistakes. Could someone please get it cleaned up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.73.39 (talk) 18:43, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Add refEdit

In the politics section there's a quote about shame. Here's the source of it: http://afpc.asso.fr/wengu/wg/wengu.php?l=Lunyu&rl=Lunyu&no=19 It would be nice were it incorporated into the article itself. Thank you. 85.76.37.56 (talk) 16:53, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Unlock this articleEdit

It's a mess and desperately needs work. 85.76.37.56 (talk) 05:27, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

The lock is necessary, because this article is a vandal magnet. If you wish to contribute, I suggest you create an account and edit this article using it. _LDS (talk) 05:31, 14 March 2010 (UTC)


TaiwanEdit

I am Starting this discussion to avoid an edit war. If Taiwan is included, then that would imply that Taiwan is separate from China, which would violates NPOV. There have been similar discussions in the past, such as at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:East_Asian_age_reckoning The concusses was to avoid mentioning Taiwan to maintain NPOV. T-1000 (talk) 01:04, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay...
One: Stating that Confucius has influenced Taiwanese culture does not mean Taiwan is a separate country. It simply means that Confucius has influenced the culture of those living in Taiwan. The sentence does not say "Confucius has influenced many countries such as Korea, Taiwan" etc. It makes no mention of states, sovereignty or anything else.
Two: Suggesting Taiwan is a country violates NPOV, but suggesting that they are the same does not? That is where your train of thought directly leads to.
Three: Tibetan Buddhism has influenced Tibet more, and in different ways, compared to other Chinese provinces, but of course it is okay to mention this!
Thanks. Rothery (talk) 02:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
One: If Taiwan is a part of China, then Confucius influencing Chinese thought would already include Taiwan. By excluding Taiwan from China you are already taking a side.
Two: The article never claims to list all cultures influenced by Confucius to begin with. Singapore is not mentioned, but nobody thinks that Singapore is a part of China
Three: The chinese naming convention already discussed Tibet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28Chinese%29

"In particular, some find a distinction between "Chinese" and "Tibetans" or between "Chinese" and "Taiwanese" to be objectionable and the terms "Han Chinese"/"Tibetans" and "Mainland Chinese"/"Taiwanese" are more politically neutral and use will depend on the context. For example, "Mainland Chinese businessmen look forward to meeting their Taiwanese counterparts" is more accurate and acceptable than with the word "Mainland" left out."

T-1000 (talk) 03:14, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Confucius has influenced the culture of Taiwan to a different extent than China. As noted the list does not purport to list countries, merely cultures. These are different. Chinese culture is not equal to Taiwanese culture. Just as Australian culture is not equal to Aboriginal Australian culture.
But since Confucianism is quite important to Taiwanese history and culture it is misleading to leave it out. If Singapore has interacted with Confucius thought to a significant and unique extent it should be listed.
That does not address my point that it is valid to refer to various regions and cultures, whether they are seen as part of a whole country or not. Rothery (talk) 04:13, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
You claim that Taiwanese culture and Chinese Culture are not the same, but that is only your point of view. There is the POV that Taiwanese culture is part of Chinese Culture. There is even the POV that Taiwan is the real China. With all these different POV, the NPOV policy does not allow us to take side, or to describe one POV as fact. T-1000 (talk) 04:35, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect paragraphEdit

This paragraph at the bottom of "Descendants" is incorrect and should be deleted or revised:

"It is important to note that this only deals with those whose lines of descent are documented historically. Using mathematical models, it is easy to demonstrate that every human being alive today is likely to be a direct descendant of Confucius, even using mathematical models that assume an extremely small amount of cross cultural mating, since any human alive today would have had 1.5 sextillion ancestors alive at the time of Confucius, over a quadrillion times more than the population of the earth at the time, making descent from Confucius a mathematical certainty, even accounting for consanguinity and geographical and cultural barriers, as noted by Yale professor Joseph T. Chang[45]."

The reason this paragraph is wrong is because the "most recent common ancestor" (MRCA) could be any one individual; the chance that that one individual, the MRCA, happens to be Confucius is extremely small. Confucius didn't live far enough back in time to be a part of the "all or nothing" era, in which an individual was either an ancestor of every living human, or of no living human. The "all or nothing" era was quite further back than Confucius (at least 2000 BC, maybe 5000 BC or even further back). Read the referenced article for more details. Confu123 (talk) 05:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree, and have weakened the claim in line with your comment and what I think is supported by the source:
"Note that this only deals with those whose lines of descent are documented historically. Using mathematical models, it is easy to demonstrate that people living today have a much more common ancestry than commonly assumed, so it is likely that many more have Confucius as an ancestor."
William MacDougall 05:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Translation ErrorEdit

In the paragraph which explains Confucius' political views, one of the Confucian quotes 知之為知之,不知為不知,是知也 was translated to "Knowledge is recognizing what you know and what you don't." This is not correct.

In common opinion of the study of ancient Chinese, the character "知" of "是知也" is different from the former four charaters "知". This character "知" is actually a borrowed character to temporarily replace the character "智", which means "wisdom". So the sentences should be translated to "Wisdom is recognizing what you know and what you don't." And this does make better sense. --Grahamiao (talk) 07:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the "Knowledge is..." wording seems incorrect. Edited as suggested above. --SimonFlummox (talk) 14:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

In Our TimeEdit

The BBC programme In Our Time presented by Melvyn Bragg has an episode which may be about this subject (if not moving this note to the appropriate talk page earns cookies). You can add it to "External links" by pasting * {{In Our Time|Confucius|p00547k8}}. Rich Farmbrough, 03:12, 16 September 2010 (UTC).

Why Are the Citations in this Article Nearly Useless?Edit

Whoever has been adding citations to this article have added names only, without any referred texts, dates, pages or anything that is generally used in Wikipedia as a reference... In many instances, the URL referred to is entirely in Chinese - again it is quite useless to anyone reading an English-language encyclopaedia which this is purported to be... Can someone improve on this and add some form of legitimate citations to what has been said here? Otherwise, the article becomes pure speculation and opinion. Stevenmitchell (talk) 17:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments by MNylanEdit

MNylan came on #wikipedia-en-help, and asked how he could implement the following changes; unfortunately, technical errors meant that he was not able to receive a full explanation. Perhaps someone can judge the content of his suggestions, and implement them if appropriate?

mnylan: Let me give you one example: Confucius was NEVER said to have authored the Li ji, which is a Han dynasty text produced about 500 years after he died.

I don't know enough about the subject to judge this! DS (talk) 01:00, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

There are numerous factual errors in the Wikipedia essay on Confucius. For example, Confucius was never believed to be the author of the <Liji>, as this was a Han-dynasty text, written about 600 years after the death of Confucius. For information, see Michael Nylan, <The Five "Confucian" Classics>, chapter 4. The information also is missing a number of important works relating to Confucius that have come out in recent years, including <Lives of Confucius> authored by Michael Nylan and Thomas Wilson. This essay is not accurate in many details nor complete. It needs much improvement. Mnylan (talk) 00:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I am happy to unprotect this for a few days and keep an eye on it - in fact will do so now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Better to Light a Candle Than to Curse the DarknessEdit

Many sources in the Internet attributes the following quote to Confucius:

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness"

Can anyone verify this? What is the original quote in Chinese?

Thank you. (1.0.5.50 (talk) 03:47, 8 February 2012 (UTC))

Reference list is in a bad stateEdit

...Especially for such an article. I've just removed every short author-date citation that had no entry in the bibliography; it had been like that since 2008 and those had--for so far I can find--never a bibliography. I'm not sure what to do with the "The Analects 479 BC - 221 BC" references... I'm guessing we can gradually replace those with other literature. I've also seperated the online references for the moment, because with all those tagged citations it would be nice to have some overview of what still has to be done. --Cold Season (talk) 02:12, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Lousy exampleEdit

廄焚。子退朝,曰:“傷人乎?” 不問馬。
When the stables were burnt down, on returning from court Confucius said, "Was anyone hurt?" He did not ask about the horses.

is not an example that requires any context or deep interpretation to understand. Anyone have a better one to make the author's point? Surely there must be something about a Duke of Yeah or the third cousin of Lord Wun forgetting to remove his shoes before touching the ancestral tea cozy or something on topic. — LlywelynII 19:48, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Similarly, a cite is very much needed that Chinese culture itself had anything near as much interest as Western interpreters in a teaching that made Confucius seem to echo Christ. — LlywelynII 19:51, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Confucius descended from Shang kingsEdit

I'm referring to these unilateral edits [2]. Legend should be clearly distinguised from fact (Info from Confucius life having undergone significant revision over time). Info that is not established should state from where it is derived from; "according to whom?". Many of the authors doesn't even state it as fact, but write that "it is said that...". Some even say that it is fabricated/constructed. Besides, this excessive quoting is also major wp:copyvio. This should plainly be removed. --Cold Season (talk) 21:25, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

First, I have kept quoting from copyrighted sources to a minimum. Most are one or a few sentences. If that is considered copyvio then remove it. But the page long quotes are from copyright free sources whose copyrights expired 100 years ago. That is not copyvio.
Second, it is a fact that Confucius is descended from Shang kings, look at the sources here Family_tree_of_Confucius_in_the_main_line_of_descent#References.
then look at the family tree. Family tree of Confucius in the main line of descent. Are those kings I see on the tree part of my imagination?Greengrenous (talk) 21:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Also look at chinese wikipedia -
孔子世家大宗世系 (Ancestors and descendants of Confucius. Shang dynasty kings are included. As is their ancestry up to Huangdi himself. If anything is legendary it is the descent from Huangdi and not from shang dynasty kings)
弗父何
宋国君主世系图 Confucius is on this family tree of Song dukes who were descended from the Shang Kings.
Greengrenous (talk) 21:41, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
This is not some urban legend like King James descent from Banquo. Unlike some spurious European claims of descents from ancient monarchs, when they cannot provide the names of the missing generations between them and their alleged ancestor, all of Confucius's ancestors to the Song dukes and shang kings are known and documented. You can find this in ancient chinese sources.Greengrenous (talk) 21:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
(1) Yes, repeatedly quoting whole paragraphs is copyvio in my opinion.
(2) No, they are part of the imagination of tradition, which is different from plain fact. Not every thing that is once written down in a historical text should be taken as plain fact. For example... Just like how scholars don't take the "Girls and horses from Qi" explanation of the Shiji as the reason that Confucius left the Lu state as an a fact, but it's rather thought to be derived from tradition. I can cite this.
(3) Just like point two, and that article is original research based on solely historical texts without modern analysis. --Cold Season (talk) 21:56, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
If you doubt this, then I expect a "citation needed tag" on every single bit of information derived from the writings of Thucydides, Herodotus, Polybius, Tacitus, the Bible and all other ancient writings, and disclaimers saying that they are all made up legend.Greengrenous (talk) 22:02, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
That was a statement lacking any substance in my opinion. I'm not interested in those articles. --Cold Season (talk) 22:05, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
you need a source that seriously doubts Confucius' descent. I am saying that we use information from ancient text which is considered reliable and not doubted and historians have not suggested that they were fake. If historians think that his ancestry is bull#### they would have written it down. The only reason you can cite the "Girls and horses from Qi" as fake is because a historian suggested that it was fake and wrote it down. There was your source. Where is a source saying that confucius is not descended from shang dynasty kings?
In other words I am saying that when we use ancient text, we use what we consider to be uncontroversial information in a normal fashion like we do to other sources. When information is doubted by historians we include that in the text: "historians have suggested that is was forged...". Until you have a source which says they are outright fakes then you can't do that.Greengrenous (talk) 22:11, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
I do have modern sources that raises doubt of that descent. Who is talking about forgery of ancient text, I'm not... Who says ancient texts are completely factual towards Confucius, they even contradict one another on many grounds. Modern historians don't just write ancient texts just down, but also analyze instead of mindlessly taking down revisions of history without a critical look. Many of your own sources do it too where they don't present it as just undisputed fact, but you do; there is the source too. --Cold Season (talk) 23:02, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
A compromise. I will wait for a third-party to trim your refs and accordingly present your info in a NPOV ("it is said" or something like in your refs). I might add on that section when I feel inclined to do so another time. --Cold Season (talk) 23:22, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 September 2012Edit

He is also referred to as Kong Fuzi. 68.42.104.37 (talk) 22:34, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

  Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. This is already mentioned in the article. RudolfRed (talk) 03:12, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

copy and pasteEdit

I suppose it shouldn't surprise me, but many, many places on the web copy and paste from this article, usually without attribution.

  • Confuciuswww.goodchinese.com/blogs/116Cached
  • Saylor.org's Ancient Civilizations of the World/Confucius and ...en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Saylor.../Confucius_and_ConfucianismCached
  • Everything has Beauty - YouTube
  • What shall we learn from Confucius? | Blog Homewww.ccjk.com/blog/what-shall-we-learn-from-confucius/Cached
  • Amazon.com: Confucius: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindlewww.amazon.com/Confucius/e/B000AQ07U2Cached
  • Confucius, Gautama Buddha and Socrates the Gretest Philosophers of ...www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic118384.htmlCached
  • Alicesg_SingaporemyhomeVolume2: Haw Par Villa - More Statuesvolume2alicesg.blogspot.com/2012/.../haw-par-villa-more-statues.ht...Cached
  • Interesting Facts About Confucius | Socybertysocyberty.com › PhilosophyCached
  • Confucius: Biography from Answers.comwww.answers.com ›

And that is only a few. Rick Norwood (talk) 14:42, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 October 2010Edit

wondering how this works — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilyoshie (talkcontribs) 17:35, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

typo in third paragraphEdit

The phrase:

"respect of elders by their children (and in traditional interpretations) of husbands by their wives"

should be:

"respect of elders by their children and (in traditional interpretations) of husbands by their wives"

Cccrrraaaiiiggg (talk) 08:05, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 April 2013Edit

persahabatan itu seperti aku dan km walaupun kita bda prinsip thumbnail jennifer sahabat baru ak dan akan jd sahabat selamanya kita tuh ada ber 5 vatr yg keperempuan bgt ,rhay yg suka bgt ngeritik org didapnnya lgsung dan zee,suka punya kepridadian masing2 ada satu lg org yg super sk tau yaitu ilo, so kita bahagia dan bs nerima satu sma lain

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.193.211.247 (talk) 17:22, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 August 2013Edit

I'd like to contribute to Wikipedia please accept my edits to Confucius. Editorzz (talk) 16:03, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

You can edit this and other semiprotected articles when your account becomes autoconfirmed. This usually happens when your account is at least 4 days old and you have at least 10 edits. RudolfRed (talk) 19:37, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Bold text FEUD WITH CM PUNK

in 2013 cm punk called out Confucius, so he rose from the dead and said "you and me at summerslam". AT THE EVENT CM PUNK WIPED THAT ASS AND SENT HIM BACK TO HIS GRAVE. AND STILL THE WWE CHAMPION CM PUNK!!!!!!!!!!!! CM PUNK STOOD ON THE TURNBUCKLE IN REJOYCS . — Preceding unsigned comment added by CAMERONDENNIS123 (talkcontribs) 21:58, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Notable descendants of Confucius who need their own articlesEdit

Kong Dejun 孔德軍 - 77 generations in descent from Confucius.

He is a Muslim, (Hui people), an Islamic scholar and Arabist and came from Qinghai. He is known for his works on Islam and Arabic in China.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-2-214461-Chinese-student-awarded-PhD-in-Arabic-at-NUML

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-6-214231-Chinese-awarded-PhD

http://www.newsxs.com/en/go/14434605/The_News_International_Pakistan/

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-349568989.html

http://www.nation.com.pk/islamabad/14-Nov-2013/chinese-student-awarded-phd-degree-in-arabic

http://www.brecorder.com/general-news/172/1253596/

http://www.brecorder.com/money-a-banking/198/1253596/?tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=

Kong Dejun's works

History of arabic in china

http://journal-archieves36.webs.com/219-225.pdf

Translations from arabic islamic works to chinese

http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/4726571

Quran translation

https://web.archive.org/web/20140112040315/http://www.taobao-buying-agent.net/item/genuine-new-the-koran-note-arab-ibn-kai-xier-with-kong-dejun-translated-15159704358.html

http://www.taobao-buying-agent.net/item/genuine-new-the-koran-note-arab-ibn-kai-xier-with-kong-dejun-translated-15159704358.html

http://fi.taobao-buying-agent.net/item/genuine-new-the-koran-note-arab-ibn-kai-xier-with-kong-dejun-translated-15159704358.html http://hu.taobao-buying-agent.net/item/genuine-new-the-koran-note-arab-ibn-kai-xier-with-kong-dejun-translated-15159704358.html http://es.taobao-buying-agent.net/item/genuine-new-the-koran-note-arab-ibn-kai-xier-with-kong-dejun-translated-15159704358.html

http://www.ibuyla.com/index.php?s=%2FCategory%2F50004910%2FIslam&p=1

Muslim Hui descendants of Confucius

看了这篇帖子肝儿疼:孔子回族后裔采访录(转载)中华文化吧 百度贴吧

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2293458790

孔德军 百度百科

http://baike.baidu.com/subview/4119041/9235733.htm

Other Hui descendants. Kong Lingyu

http://anthrocivitas.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4720

http://img1.qq.com/news/pics/10037/10037950.jpg

Ma Li Gu

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-6-221920-NUML-scholar-completes-PhD-in-Arabic

05:18, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

http://www.china.org.cn/china/features/content_16696029_3.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6230959/Confucius-family-tree-unveiled.html

04:45, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

http://www.ahwang.cn/djkd/20140925/1390743.shtml

Silver ruleEdit

I removed the claim that a citation is needed here. Self-evidently this is the logical inverse, and the article silver rule gives a cite to Carl Sagan referring to it as such. Imaginatorium (talk) 06:33, 18 July 2015 (UTC)


Thanks to CRGreathouse for a thoughtful edit that replaced "Golden Rule" with "Silver Rule." But I reverted the recent edit because the link is to the article "Golden Rule," which does not mention "SIlver Rule." I would be happy to see someone add a referenced mention of SR to the GR article and to add a mention of SR someplace in this Confucius article. This would enrich both articles since a quick Google search on "Confucius and Silver Rule" (here) shows that this is an interesting point that I do not have time to pursue. So I would simply request that a mention of SR be added only if some explanation is included. (This is not quite the same as marking SR with unreferenced, so simply adding a reference to a mention in the lead would not be quite right. Cheers ch (talk) 18:42, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I agree -- the Silver Rule is interesting and worth coverage, and should not be needlessly conflated with the similar Golden Rule. But I similarly lack time to write the article, so I'll follow 0RR and leave this article with the incorrect link.
It looks like Silver Rule was an article which was replaced for no good reason with a redirect, but I don't have time for fighting that battle either.
CRGreathouse (t | c) 20:27, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
The history page of the SR Redirect shows that the SR article was a stub, though I think that you and I would agree that the move might well have included incorporating a mention of SR. It would take a little thought to represent the issue in accordance with WP:DUEWEIGHT, since the Sam Crane Useless Tree link in the Google Search above calls the distinction between GR & SR "silly" while other good sources take it seriously.ch (talk) 04:29, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Hundred schools type articleEdit

If people wanted to include developments of Confucianism (and it's predecessors in virtuous values) in this article it could become a hundred-schools type article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Administrative_Realism_in_Ancient_China

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2015Edit

Please insert a reference to the following article: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1288392 , which regards a comparison between Legalism and Confucianism and their impact on Chinese politics and institutions, at the end of the first paragraph of the 'Politics' subsection of the 'Philosophy' section. 91.182.199.7 (talk) 12:55, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Mdann52 (talk) 19:32, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

who was heEdit

He was this weirdo fat guy whom told everybody peer lies. So don't trust this fucken guy.

Historical inaccuraciesEdit

There exist misleading historical inaccuracies in the "legacy" section, namely:

"When the Confucian advisers pressed their point, Li Si had many Confucian scholars killed and their books burned—considered a huge blow to the philosophy and Chinese scholarship."

Li Si played no part in the killing of the Confucian Scholars; sure, the laws that he proposed were harsh due to the fact that he hailed from the school of legalism,but that doesn't mean he advocated the killings of confucian scholars. History records, such as "Han Shu" and "Shi Ji" all unanimously states that the reason the Qin emperor executed these Confucian scholars was due to the fact that most of them were unable to deliver the promise of immortality that he longed for, that was the real breaking point which led the Emperor to execute 460 Confucian scholars.

The book-burning incident though, was the handiwork of Li Si. But even then, according to the Royal Edict stated in Shi Ji by Sima Qian, Emperor Qin prohibits private collections of all non-legalist books among the public, except books which relates divination and also books about farming techniques. Be that as it may, if we were to read the Royal edict, even though he prohibits and advocated the burning of non-legalist books, he had a copy of all the books that was to be burned well-kept in the imperial library. Modern Chinese Historians agrees that the real damage that was made towards Chinese philosophy and scholarships was when Xiang Yu burned the Qin Palace, therefore resulting in the destructions of countless Chinese legacies from the past.

121.121.46.210 (talk) 08:28, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

BibliographyEdit

"Bibliography" is a misnomer in this case, unless you are pointing to his Analects or his other writings. Bibliography refers to the actual works of a given author, and what we have here is mostly discussions and analysis by other authors. Kortoso (talk) 23:27, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modifiedEdit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Confucius. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete the "External links modified" sections if they want, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.


Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:21, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2017Edit

Confucius is very wrong!!!! :/ 113.28.166.225 (talk) 03:36, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. JTP (talkcontribs) 03:46, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modifiedEdit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on Confucius. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete the "External links modified" sections if they want, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.


Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:13, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modifiedEdit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Confucius. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete the "External links modified" sections if they want, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.


Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:14, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modifiedEdit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Confucius. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete the "External links modified" sections if they want, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.


Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:06, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

ChinaEdit

I will build a great great wall Mexico will pay for that wall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.38.130 (talk) 21:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

PropertyEdit

"When the stables were burnt down, on returning from court Confucius said, "Was anyone hurt?" He did not ask about the horses. Analects X.11 (tr. Waley), 10–13 (tr. Legge), or X-17 (tr. Lau)" Are there reliable sources to connect the horrible treatment of animals contemporarily to the treatment of non-human animals in the Confucian sphere of influence. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 12:40, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modifiedEdit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Confucius. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete the "External links modified" sections if they want, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.


Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:41, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Confucius exileEdit

This subsection of this article is in desperate need of sourcing. Can somebody who's more experienced and an expert in his life do that for me. Also I feel that this section only briefly mentions the states he went to during his exile but no details or stories are ever given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EdwardElric2016 (talkcontribs) 04:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2018Edit

I would like to add a new external link, which is a MOOC in Coursera titled "Explorations in Confucian Philosophy" (https://www.coursera.org/learn/confucian-philosophy) as it provides some in-depth discussions on Confucius' teaching. SiangHweeLee (talk) 07:17, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

  Not done: This is information for an online credit course, and while MOOC's may offer information for free (if you register), I'm not particularly sure that even in an article with a dire need for sources that this is the way to go for the External Links section.   SPINTENDO          07:31, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 June 2018Edit

was also a well known TV and film actor, with multiple roles in hit shows including Seinfeld, How I Met Your Mother and Avatar. 2001:8003:A080:3E00:E5B5:7563:922E:6ED (talk) 00:49, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

  Not done:IVORK Discuss 03:07, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect translation of "Kǒng Fūzǐ" (孔夫子) into Master KongEdit

孔夫子 does not mean Master Kong. Fūzǐ (夫子) is an old term describing a male and is typically used from middle age onwards. A more correct english equivalent would simply be Mister Kong. Fūzǐ does have connotation towards a scholarly being or merely an educated scholar, but none of these meanings justify using the English word Master. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LemonCitron (talkcontribs) 03:24, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2019Edit

{{subst:trim|1=Kong zi is smart --

  Not done: This is not a request to edit the article. Gulumeemee (talk) 07:39, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

DesiderataEdit

I'd appreciate a section that discusses the primary sources for Confucius' life. Beyond the Analects, maybe a section in Sima Qian's Records, & numerous anecdotes of C. debating various hermits (including Lao Tzu), I know of no sources for his life. This would allow readers to decide for themselves just how much there is to know about this influential teacher. -- llywrch (talk) 15:03, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Return to "Confucius" page.