Talk:Cheshire Cat

Active discussions


Proposed New ContentEdit

For our Cornell University class project, my team plans to add to each of the existing sections. We hope to find some more information regarding the origins of the character and history significance (in contexts unrelated to the famous Louis Carroll tale). We plan to give the page a design overhaul, adding charts, quotes, images, and other embedded features. We plan to do a comparison of the different cinema representations of the character.

We will reach out to the six existing Wiki projects that are interested int he Cheshire Cat page, and solicit their insight in our page development. Some existing sources are Cheshire Cat Grin - TV Tropes DisneyWiki Cheshire Cat Cheshire County Profile Psychological Study on Cheshire Cat LogicPrinceton Cheshire Cat WikiOrigins of the Cheshire Cat (Abbysonn (talk) 19:28, 9 September 2014 (UTC))

  • Hey @Abbysonn. Thanks for taking this on as an assignment. Just as an FYI, open wikis like tvtropes or specific wikias are usually not accepted as reliable sources. The tvtropes page is a good starting point for works which included the cheshire cat, but be careful to not cite claims on wikipedia directly to it or the disney wikia. Hope you have fun w/ the assignment and feel free to {{ping}} me or leave me a message on my talk page if you want some help. BTW I'm not affiliated w/ the course, just some person who has this page on my watchlist. Protonk (talk) 19:35, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
    • Hey @Protonk Thank you for the insight! My group and I will keep that in mind!(Abbysonn (talk) 19:54, 9 September 2014 (UTC))
@Abbysonn - please move the educational assignment template to the top of the talk page, above all the sections. Thanks, LeshedInstructor (talk) 02:04, 11 September 2014 (UTC).
@Abbysonn - thanks for moving the educational assignment template to the top of the talk page. However you should not move the section, only the template. Please move this section to the bottom of the discussion page. Thanks, LeshedInstructor (talk) 16:40, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
@LeshedInstructor: easy enough for me to move it. Protonk (talk) 16:49, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
@Protonk Thank you very much, we will definitely look into it! Isabella.krell (talk) 15:55, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Sources we plan on using, and for what:

  • We plan on using the Cheshire Cat's characteristics and applying them to humans, to help flesh out sections pertaining to the character's social and [pop]cultural influence. This specific journal article looks at facial expressions that resemble that of the cat. [1] (Isabella.krell (talk) 17:53, 30 September 2014 (UTC))
  • An interesting reference to the Cheshire Cat is introduced in this journal article, which uses an encounter between Alice and the character as a metaphor while applying a "psychopathology label to terrorists." This finding furthers our efforts to break down the Cheshire Cat's cultural impact and transcendence into fields unrelated to the literary/film world. [2] (Isabella.krell (talk) 17:53, 30 September 2014 (UTC)) Hkm24 (talk) 00:26, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Similarly, the Cheshire Cat has been used out of its traditional context to help define a scientific phenomenon: what is known to the world of marine ecology as the "Cheshire Cat" escape strategy. This pertains to the behavior of the "coccolithophore Emiliania huxleyi in response to viral infection." The name is an obvious gesture to the Cheshire Cat's tropes of disappearance and mystique, and is explained by this scientific article: [3] Hkm24 (talk) 00:26, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
  • The Cheshire Cat's trademark smile is used to model a concept in another niche topic area: this time, economics, urban planning, and energy policy. A study uses the cat's image to coin the moment when "planning replaces competition." When this happens, "all that is left of the competitive element of the model is the free market rhetoric: ‘the grin of the Cheshire cat.’" See referenced abstract: [4] Hkm24 (talk) 00:26, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
  • The Cheshire Cat is often used as a metaphor in the sciences to describe many phenomena. The Cheshire Cat Effect refers to a binocular rivalry when one eye is viewing a moving object makes it so a stationary object becomes invisible. [5]
  • This website gives a better explanation of the Cheshire Cat Effect. It goes in to detail about who to run an experiment that will demonstrate this binocular rivalry.[6] (Abbysonn (talk) 17:00, 18 September 2014 (UTC))
  • Another example of the Cheshire Cat being used as a metaphor in science. This particular source suggests that catalytic RNAs can be looked at as Cheshire cats because they dim out part of their complex structure and leave only certain sharp parts of the ion in view. [7] (Abbysonn (talk) 15:43, 24 September 2014 (UTC))
  • The Cheshire Cat is a phenomenon in quantum mechanics in which a particle and its property behave as if they are separated. We plan to explore why this phenomena was given its name as well as other scientific Cheshire Cat references [8]
  • In an attempt to increase the science section in this page, we found more articles that use Chesire Cat as a scientific term. (Isabella.krell (talk) 17:53, 30 September 2014 (UTC))
    • In this particular article, they refer to the Cheshire Cat as an escape of a scientific strategy in response to a viral infection. In the abstract, the author explains that "These Cheshire Cat dynamics release host evolution from pathogen pressure and thus can be seen as an opposing force to a classic "Red Queen" coevolutionary arms race." [9] (Isabella.krell (talk) 17:53, 30 September 2014 (UTC))
    • This BBC Article describes the "quantum Chesire Cat" phenomenon, which happens when a particle separates from one of its physical properties. [10] (Isabella.krell (talk) 17:53, 30 September 2014 (UTC))

Breakdown of Team Contributions:

  • Talk page: Hannah, Isabella, Abby, and Carolyn to propose new content, and cite applicable research to support new content's relevance and significance
    • New content includes (but is not limited to) a Science section, a chart within the "Adaptations of Alice..." section, supporting images across all sections, and improved layout design for the article as a whole. Hkm24 (talk) 02:16, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Science section: Hannah, Isabella, Abby, and Carolyn to compile research, write copy, and add text to article. Isabella to add to science section (Second half of Quantum Mechanics paragraph and Schrödinger's Cat). (Isabella.krell (talk) 02:07, 2 October 2014 (UTC)) Hannah to copy edit and add images.
  • Chart: Hannah, Abby to compile research, write copy, add text to article. Hannah to graphically format information. Isabella to link content to supporting Wiki pages within the chart, as well as gather and embed images. Hkm24 (talk) 02:16, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
    • I added the behavior chunk for the Adventures in Wonderland section of the chart. I plan to re-watch the Tim Burton version before bed for research! Abbysonn (talk) 03:09, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
    • We are missing pictures of the cheshire cat for two of the movies in our chart. We tried to find pictures with the appropriate release however we were not able to find one on Google Images. Originally, we did find two images with what we thought was the appropriate releasee, however when we added them to Wikimedia commons, they were removed. Ishtiaque and LeshedInstructor we are still looking for a resolution to this issue and would appreciate your feedback and help. Carolynella (talk) 20:39, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Physical Look of the Page: Isabella to get rid of extra white spaces on the page, to make it look more physically appealing. (Isabella.krell (talk) 02:07, 2 October 2014 (UTC))


Good Work @Abbysonn, @Hkm24, @Isabella.krell, @Carolynella. The article Cheshire Cat is now looking a lot better. Here are a few suggestions to make the article look even better:
a) First complete the table in the "Cross media comparison" section. You have mentioned a number of movies in the table, which need appropriate citations/link. I think you are adding text in the 'behavior' column from your own experience, which is totally fine. However, you can also check websites like IDB, or articles in Newspapers to see if you can get supporting materials.
b) It is always helpful to summarize the information presented in a table. You can do that before or after the table. if you present a comparison, you may also want to tell why that comparison in important, what message does that convey, etc.
c) One of the images in the table is taken from Disney's website. Could you please check and make sure if that photo has any copyright issues. You can also check the copyright condition of the other pictures used in this article, too.
d) I think the second infobox needs a little more clarification. I guess this is a painting of Chesire Cat. If so, why don't you add a corresponding subsection with a heading 'paining' and write more about it? It may also be useful to find some more information about the painter and the painting. If it is not talking about a painting, then please try to explain what it is.
e) Compared to the amount of content this article has in its body, I think the introduction text is too little. You may want to add a few more lines to indicate Chesire Cat's appearance, impact, and effect in science, movie, culture, literature, etc.
f) Make sure you made the connections that Protonk suggested if possible. You can request Protonk to see if he likes that.
e) There may be interesting information about this character in Disney Wiki. If you haven't already checked that website, please do. Also, Google Scholar search on this topic may give you some interesting information that you may want to bring in.
IshtiaqueAhmedCornell (talk) 02:22, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm happy to answer questions or offer help if need be. One general thing I will suggest is to take a look at the structure of what you're adding and see if it can be refactored to make the page look better in general. Meaning right now the page is mainly a long list of the appearances or references of the Cheshire cat and it's possible that adding more (from the sciences and humanities) will put more verifiable info on the page (that's good!) but contribute to the sort of litany style (that's bad!). One way to avoid this is to summarize various references/invokations of the cheshire cat across a number of different sources. E.g. if we have multiple uses in science where the metaphor comes in because something appears/disappears at will, try and group those together and talk about that feature of the cat being used as a metaphor, rather than just listing both. This is really hard to do without getting into original research (that's one of the reasons why the page looks the way it does) but it's possible. It's a little easier to do this with metaphorical uses than with literal references in works. Ideally what this page should be eventually is a general discussion of the cheshire cat and a summary section for another article List of media uses for the Cheshire Cat (or something like that), but overhauling the article like that may be beyond the scope of your course. :) Protonk (talk) 14:19, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Thank you IshtiaqueAhmedCornell and Protonk for your thorough and helpful feedback. My group will be meeting early this upcoming week to discuss the suggestions for improvement that have been communicated by you as well as our classmate contributors, and I am looking forward to incorporating your recommendations into our final edits. IshtiaqueAhmedCornell: We will investigate all image components contained in the article and remove/replace any that have questionable copyright. We also intend to spruce up any existing infoboxes created prior to our involvement, so that they are more relevant and informative. It is important to us to refine the Cheshire Cat article to the point where all components (textual or otherwise) merit space on the page rather than contribute to clutter (as some classmates noted, some of the information is redundant). Protonk: We appreciate your perspective on the flow of the article; I agree that weaving the various instances in which the Cheshire Cat is referred to in Science throughout a general discussion of the character's magical qualities would read much better than the listy format the article currently boasts. However, as you note, this may be challenging, but not because of the effort it will take to synthesize bullet points into paragraph form, but because of the dilemma surrounding which format is truly more appropriate for the article. I personally believe that a Wiki reader searching for info about the Cheshire Cat may benefit more from a series of sectioned lists than a large mass of text, especially if they are using Wiki to recall a certain detail or confirm a certain fact (i.e. "What was that theory named after the Cheshire Cat again?") as I so often do. That all said, my group will discuss all feedback and use it to improve the article to the best of our ability. Thank you both again for taking the time to provide insight!
Hkm24 (talk) 20:14, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi Ishtiaque thanks for your feedback. After discussing as a group we will be creating a Disney section of the article and be including quotes and information straight from the movie. However we will make sure not to use Disney Wiki as a source since Protonk mentioned that its not a reliable source. Carolynella (talk) 17:36, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

ReferencesEdit

  1. ^ Coss, Craig S.; Coss, Richard G.; Parks, Theodore E. (1985). "Thatcher and the Cheshire cat: context and the processing of facial features". Perception. 14 (6): 747–754. doi:10.1068/p140747. Retrieved 17 September 2014.
  2. ^ Silke, Andrew (Jan 2008). "Cheshire-cat logic: The recurring theme of terrorist abnormality in psychological research". Psychology, Crime & Law. 4 (1): 51–69. doi:10.1080/10683169808401747. Retrieved 17 September 2014.
  3. ^ Frada, Miguel, et al. "The “Cheshire Cat” escape strategy of the coccolithophore Emiliania huxleyi in response to viral infection." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 105.41 (2008): 15944-15949. http://www.pnas.org/content/105/41/15944.full
  4. ^ Thomas, Steve. "The grin of the Cheshire cat." Energy Policy 34.15 (2006): 1974-1983. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421505000650
  5. ^ Duensing, Sally; Miller, Bob (1979). "The Cheshire Cat effect". Perception. 8 (3): 269–273. doi:10.1068/p080269.
  6. ^ "Cheshire Cat: Perception Science Project". Exploratorium Science Snacks. Retrieved 18 September 2014.
  7. ^ Yarus, Michael (1993). "How many catalytic RNAs? Ions and the Cheshire cat conjecture". The FASEB Journal. 7 (1): 31-39. Retrieved 24 September 2014.
  8. ^ "Observation of a quantum Cheshire Cat in a matter-wave interferometer experiment". Nature Communications. 5. 29 July 2014. Retrieved 18 September 2014.
  9. ^ Frada, Miguel; Probert, Ian; Allen, Michael J.; Wilson, William H.; de Vargas, Colomban (2008). "The "Cheshire Cat" escape strategy of the coccolithophore Emiliania huxleyi in response to viral infection". The National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. 105 (41): 15944–15949. doi:10.1073/pnas.0807707105. Retrieved 24 September 2014.
  10. ^ Morgan, James. "'Quantum Chesire Cat' becomes reality". BBC News. BBC. Retrieved 24 September 2014.

Nice ArticleEdit

This article is really useful and informative.

Batreeq (Talk) (Contribs) 02:31, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Batreeq!
Hkm24 (talk) 12:44, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Explanation of the phraseEdit

The political explanation of the phrase "grin like a Cheshire cat", previously stated to be "finally explained" until I changed it to a more modest statement, seems fanciful to me. I don't believe it. Either evidence is needed, or it should be deleted. Anyhow, the mini-history of Cheshire and "caitiff" is too long for the need. Zaslav (talk) 20:46, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

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