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He witnessed the execution of Gabriel Péri?Edit

The idea that Camus witnessed the death of Péri (in Fort Mont-Valérien?) requires a citation. Mark Orme, in The Development of Albert Camus's Concern for Social and Political Justice writes that, "one should treat with caution Camus's own recollection that he joined forces with the Resistance movement upon reading, in Lyons, of the death of the influential communist leader Gabriel Peri...". (p. 238) This seems an altogether more likely scenario to me. Péri is not mentioned in the French article about Camus. William Avery (talk) 22:04, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Diff showing insertion at 20:35, 4 December 2004 . William Avery (talk) 12:43, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
"C'était un matin, à Lyon, et je lisais dans le journal l'exécution de Gabriel Péri." [Albert Camus, Actuelles I. Écrits politiques (VIII. Deux Réponses à Emmanuel d'Astier de la Vigerie)] [1] William Avery (talk) 19:58, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Camus and PacifismEdit

Does anyone know of sources supporting the assertion that Camus was a pacifist? Wnjr (talk) 15:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

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Group for International LiaisonsEdit

Why is the reference to the "Group for International Liaisons" considered important enough to be in the summary section of this article, but not mentioned again anywhere else? Also, it makes it appear as if he's denouncing capitalism and communism, when he's actually denouncing an "idolatry of technology" in both the USA and USSR (source for this is the same source used in the article). Unsure if it's important enough to include why it's stripped of context. MC152 (talk) 19:46, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Camus as anarchist(solved)Edit

Can someone add something about Camus as an anarchist? orelse i hope we wont add something without sources.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 13:35, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=camus+anarchism --Galassi (talk) 14:20, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
not a single rs. please find something first and then add it in the article. Thank you.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 14:36, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
There is a plethora.--Galassi (talk) 14:50, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
maybe there is, but until now you bring nothing. You just copy and paste a book with the last... page as a reference. Totally fake sources.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 15:10, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
I notice, you add sources like this https://avtonom.org/people/alber-kamyu its totally not a RS.
Galassi You have put this book Arendt_Camus_and_modern_rebellion, and you write page 320...i.e the last page of this book (320/320)! Can you bring something from this book? Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 20:21, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
Have a look here. Cinadon36 (talk) 04:37, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
More philosophical review of his work. also Martin Heidegger a prominent NAZI member is mentioned as his work was affiliated with anarchism as Camus .Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 05:23, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
A philosophical review that claims that CAmus philosophy was existential anarchism. So, what is your sources claiming that he wasn't?  Cinadon36 (talk) 05:31, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that his work as also the work of the NAZI supporter was as anarchist philosophy not as a person.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 05:41, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Are you attempting to disqualify a published peer reviewed article because you think it contains a fallacy?Anyway where is your source that Camus wasnt an anarchist? Cinadon36 (talk) 06:03, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Or here: Peter Marshall Demanding the impossible p 445 "The libertarian atmosphere affected Albert Camus who associated with French and Spanish anarchists and syndicalists, and studied anarchist history and philosophY. Although he was critical of Stirner and Bakunin in his L 'Homme revolte (195 1), he was even more critical of authoritarian communism. The work shows that he was moving towards a form of anarcho-syndicalism". Cinadon36 (talk) 04:45, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
So not an anarchist. He was moving not moved. Totally synthesis until now based in  a libcom article.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 04:57, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
No, he was within anarchism and moving towards a/syndicalism.  Cinadon36 (talk) 05:31, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
I fear that you don't understand what your source suggests. Please read more carefully. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 05:41, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Dont worry, it is pretty clear that the source given does validate the article's sentence. On the other hand you have provided no other source but your opinion. Cinadon36 (talk) 06:03, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
No need to provide anything. Your problem to prove that he was an anarchist, not mine that he wasnt. Science goes this way not the opposite. Clear synthesis. I fear not the first time. But, i wont insist, i will wait other users to say their opinionsΑντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Just to be clear, the article does not claim that Camus was an anarchist, but "became associated with the French anarchist movement" Here is another article that deals with this issue: Albert Camus and the Anarchist Alternative Peter Dunwoodie Related information1 Goldsmiths' College, University of London https://doi.org/10.3828/AJFS.30.1.84.[2] There 's also another interesting article ( Dadoun, R. (1986) Albert Camus: Fondations d’anarchie in J. Guérin (ed.) Camus et la politique, pp. 257–67.) but I can not spot it on the web. Cinadon36 (talk) 09:07, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Concerning this edit [3] by Αντικαθεστωτικός, there is no consensus to remove him from that list. BBC lists him as an anarchist,[4] his philosophy has been categorized as existential anarchism, so I do not see any reason for [ this edit. Cinadon36 (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand. Was he an anarchist or not? If he was please provide some sources with such claim. BBC category is NOT a RS. Perhaps you should read Wikipedia:Reliable sources. I am thinking that it is a try to present him like an anarchist where there is none source about his life say so. Its synthesis again, i fear.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 12:20, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps you should read Wikipedia:Reliable sources, here is an interesting quote: "Most newspapers also reprint items from news agencies such as BBC News, Reuters, Interfax, Agence France-Presse, United Press International or the Associated Press, which are responsible for accuracy." As for sources portraying him as an anarchist, there are plenty of them, they have been presented already. Cinadon36 (talk) 12:30, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
so your main argument that he was an anarchist is just a category of BBC? I fear this is totally wrong. Also, i haven't see any other source about this claim. Maybe i haven't look well. Please, tell me which citations do you consider that prove that he was an anarchist? tell me please just the numbers (p.e 3&4). I Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 12:43, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
'Albert Camus and the Anarchist Alternative PETER DUNWOODIE: in this article, the writer claims that Camus was close to anarchism, but NOT an anarchist. So i fear that this claim, from this source is SYNTHESIS. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 14:40, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Can you provide us with the exact quotation saying that he was NOT an anarchist? Definitely, not the case of Synthesis. Are you certain that you are aware of the meaning of the term? Cinadon36 (talk) 17:03, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
It's your duty to provide something that proves Camus was an anarchist, not mine. Until now you brung only a ...category for BBC. Nothing. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 17:54, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Nope, I brought much more. And I can not see why you do not accept BBC as a RS. Cinadon36 (talk) 18:13, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Yeah you brought a paper about his work, and the other user brought libcom and autonomoi(something). It is very clear that here there is a try to present him as an anarchist with total zero RS. The funny thing is that you ask from me to provide sources that he wasn't anarchist cause you can't find anything that proves him as an anarchist. Please read Marshall With Albert Camus, the links with anarchism and the anarchist movement are much closer. So, even the anarchist Marshall claims he was close to anarchism, BUT not an anarchist. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 18:31, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
I wouldnt call peer reviewed articles or BBC as "zero RS". I asked for you to back your claim the writer claims that Camus was close to anarchism, but NOT an anarchist. Marshall is not saying he was NOT an anarchist. That is your conclusion. Cinadon36 (talk) 06:57, 4 May 2019 (UTC)


Finally, cinadon36 brought a RS. Case solved for me. He is considered as anarchist for some people, so its ok.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 12:30, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

edit conflictEdit

I provided a good source about having affairs with anarchism. Do you prefer to use blogs instead of Peter Marshall?

I also added simple facts about his relations with socialist party in 1953. His view about USSR in 1944. And his view about Algeria based in anarchist historian Peter Marshall and a scientific paper.

what is the problem again? Why i ve been reverted? I will go to ani if this is not explained.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 04:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Pls stop the edit warring. Cinadon36 (talk) 06:54, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

So you deleted simple facts based on peter Marshall with this excuse. As you wish. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 07:59, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

May 2019Edit

It is presented and it is not true that Camus was related to anarchism during 1937-1944 and 1953- death.

I provided sources that proves that he was ~popular front pioneer during 1937-1944 and source that he was a socialist in his late life. But i am reverted for some reasons.

Please provide some sources that proves that Camus was indeed related to anarchism for these periods.

Also, please let Peter Marshall (historian) view to add it in the article.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 08:46, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

unsourced material-1Edit

This article claims: "He again allied with the anarchists in 1956, first in support of the workers' uprising in Poznań, Poland, and then later with the Hungarian Revolution'"

but peter Marshall for the same period says that he was related to socialist party and he: He had reached the classic liberal defence of parliamentary democracy."


so who has right here? unsourced material or Peter Marshall?Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 09:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Why dont you place a tag ie {{unsourced}} next to it? As for Marshall, why don't you mention title, year, publisher and page? Cinadon36 (talk) 10:56, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I think i have already done this, but maybe i did something wrong. ok i will try again. Please check if i something wrong and revert me but please with an explanation not blind revertΑντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 11:03, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Add {{cn}} at the end of the sentence. Cinadon36 (talk) 11:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

material 2Edit

There is a claim into this article ", which got him into trouble with his Communist party comrades, who in 1937 denounced him as a Trotskyite and expelled him from the party. Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement."

Please give me a RS about this claim. Cause Peter Marshall~ 1937-1944~suggests that during this period he was close to popular front politics.

Just tell me the numbers of the citations. p.e :BBC link was nothing about this, unfortunately.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 11:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

There are four refs following that particular sentence. Cinadon36 (talk) 12:01, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand russian. do you? please if you are kind translate this page so i can understand.Also the second ref hasn't a page. Please tell me the page. The other 2 refs I deleted them, please check if i did something wrong. But i want an explanation . thanx in advance.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 12:19, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
No I do not. But what are you implying? Russian sources are not allowed? Cinadon36 (talk) 12:21, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
No of course not. I will ask User:Galassi to translate if he would like.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 12:23, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Verbatim: "...My deeply felt anarchism etc".--Galassi (talk) 19:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
What is written about Camus+anarchism during the years 1937-1944?Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 20:40, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
I see only the year 1946. What is written in this book about the relationship of Camus and anarchism since 1937-1944? Should i ask someone else? I fear that maybe is a violation of W.K policy and there is nothing about this. Also Galassi can you write the correct page of the other source? Thank you in advance.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 15:15, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Αντικαθεστωτικός. This book in Russian (second ref) just says that "he was communist and anarchist at the same time". This book is completely absent from the study of the views and political activities of Camus.--Nicoljaus (talk) 20:14, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you a lot Nicoljaus , so i fear that Galassi added a lot of false citations just to revert my edits. I am sure that he didn't do it in purpose. I will delete them. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 20:32, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Advice: do not revert/delete anything unless you are sure it is false info. Fear/suspicion is not enough. Cinadon36 (talk) 20:36, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it, i won't remove the last citation. I look forward Galassi to bring the correct page. Thank Cinadon36. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 20:44, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Happy to help.Cinadon36 (talk) 20:50, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Again, the full sentence from Camus' own notebooks "...Возможно также, что это недоверие противостоит моему глубинному анархизму, и в этом его польза." from http://www.you-books.com/book/A-Kamyu/Zapisnye-Knizhki . Is that false info?--Galassi (talk) 20:57, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
I am not sure that from this phrase it can be concluded about Camus' political position. Further on the same link: "В глубине моей души – анархия, ужасный хаос." (In the depths of my soul - anarchy, terrible chaos.) It seems that Camus considers this "anarchism in the depths of the soul" not political views, but some mental instability with which he should fight. Well and, among other things, this is just the primary source. Let them be interpreted by experts.--Nicoljaus (talk) 21:50, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Until something is 100% sure, my opinion is that such material we can't use it. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 08:36, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

libertarian socialist or anarcho-syndicalistEdit

For Camus, this claim is ultimately grounded in human nature itself, which, among other things, is characterized by a strong impulse toward both spontaneity and creativity, and his commitment to a radically democratic (“bottom up”) form of political organization, as manifested in revolutionary trade-unionism or the Paris Commune of 1871, is, arguably, most in keeping with this fundamental condition of human flourishing. Politically, therefore, whether in 1944 or 1954, Camus is best understood as a libertarian socialist or, more exactly, an anarcho-syndicalist (anarcho-syndicalism being the theory that politics should begin with voluntary associations of cooperative, labor-based groups rather than the state).

  • David Sherman (30 January 2009). Camus. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 978-1-4443-0328-5. p.185Cinadon36 (talk) 12:21, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Wonderful source. That kind of stuff i was searching from the beginning. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 12:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

But, now i saw the years. Peter Marshall says that he had relations in Socialist Party and he was a Socialist since 1953. Do you wish to bring more facts about this? So what now? Is Peter Marshall a RS and we should include his view? I think this is a big confict. Also we must add something about his support for a France occupied Algeria. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 20:49, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I have to mention that maybe it was common in France to be an anarcho-syndicalist and also a supporter of Colonial France as Camus was. So maybe David Sherman has right -i am not sure- or maybe Peter Marshall has right and since 1950 he became an Socialist. In any way i don't know, but i think we must present all the views of RS, and not only those that mention that he was an anarchist. I hope you will agree. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 15:30, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Ι 'd suggest we stick to Sherman as his work is on Camus. Marshall, on the other hand, examines the history of anarchism from day one to the end of the 20th century. Cinadon36 (talk) 21:30, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Don't worry i have a lot of good stuff about this topic. Please, give me some time to gather my sources about the socialist views of Camus (as Marshall suggests also). Thank you. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 23:59, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Camus as socialist and supporter of Colonial FranceEdit

  • But rather than developing his anarcho-syndicalist sympathies, Camus soon veered in the opposite direction. In the 1955 elections, he supported the campaign of Mendel-France and called for a French Labour Party.
  • Camus by extension chose his tribe, his nation and his race. As a result, he remained faithful to his roots, a left-wing colonialist

{{sfn|Marshall|1993|p=584}}

If not enough, please ask for more. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 15:20, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Instead of searching for labels, we should strive to explain his political (and philosophical) thought based on RSs discussing Camus. Cinadon36 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

See also sectionEdit

Can anyone fix "see also" section? Cinadon36 (talk) 18:25, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

page needed, is it xiv?Edit

Concerning this edit [5], does anyone have access to Isaac's book? Seems to me that xiv indicates a page within the book. Cinadon36 (talk) 07:14, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Roman numerals usually denote pages in the intro. I would say the book has 320 pages, and 14 pages of the intro.--Nicoljaus (talk) 07:55, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, we would have to cite intro using roman numerals. Unfortunately, there's no preview at google-books. Cinadon36 (talk) 08:05, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Numbers just indicate the number of pages: It has xiv (=14) pp intro plus 320 pp. Page xiv is blank! I find nothing in the book to directly support the sentence Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement. There are many comments like "[Arendt and Camus] ... retained many left-wing commitments, especially an affinity with anarchist politics" (p 14), "Arendt and Camus are best thought of as democrats of an anarchist stripe" (p 19), "a libertarian, anarchist version of democratic politics" (p 139), "radical democratic politics with a marked anarchist strain" (p 140), "anarchist and syndicalist politics inspired their political thinking" (p 149), "Camus's Notebooks make clear that this Mediterranean anarchist spirit, along with its Russian cousin, is a chief source of inspiration" (p 149) and more of the same. Not one single word about actual association with any movement, only about inspiration. --T*U (talk) 10:52, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks @TU-nor:, I 'll leave the removed sentence here, in case anyone finds a source on this issue [6]: Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement. Cinadon36 (talk) 11:11, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Here: "Camus would later be associated with the French anarchist movement." It's from Biography.com. I won't add it back coz biography.com doesnt look like RS to me. If it is a valid sentence, I 'll surely find info elsewhere.Cinadon36 18:36, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

We agreed that he was associated with anarchists and he was anarchist. Case solved. The remaining question is when?. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 09:28, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
As I can tell from Sherman 2009, chapt. Realpolitik, Camus has been a libertarian socialist from WWII to his death- maybe even earlier. Camus is not the typical kind of anarchist. Most of us, assume that anarchists do not vote and are not engaged with political parties. This stereotype was formulated in the late 19th century while Marx and Bakunin were fighting each other in the First International. It is quite evident though, that not all anarchist abstain from voting or supporting political parties. Electoral abstentionism is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition to be an anarchist. (Surely, abstentionism is extremely common among anarchists) Cinadon36 11:05, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Where was he during the occupation of France?Edit

Any idea?Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 12:56, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Paris mostly, he was active at the underground resistance movement as an editor at newspaper Combat. See article. Cinadon36 (talk) 13:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Some sources suggest that he was at Combat since 1944(~liberation of France), some others since 1943. I am really confusedΑντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 13:23, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
I think these kind of problems are to be expected when dealing with clandestine organisations. The border between a friend and a member of such organisations is somewhat vague, sometimes, I guess... Cinadon36 18:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

CLOPEdit

Text at the article: When Camus was asked in the 1950s by an alumnus sports magazine for a few words regarding his time with the RUA, his response included the following: "After many years during which I saw many things, what I know most surely about morality and the duty of man I owe to sport and learned it in the RUA." Camus was referring to a sort of simplistic morality he wrote about in his early essays, the principle of sticking up for your friends, of valuing bravery and fair-play. Camus's belief was that political and religious authorities try to confuse us with over-complicated moral systems to make things appear more complex than they really are, potentially to serve their own needs. Source

Very Well said, but it is a CLOP violation. Moreover, I am not very certain whether Camus-Society.Com is RS. Cinadon36 (talk) 13:26, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

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